Tough to defend position if you only consider systems intact today (and thereby filtering out nazi-Germany for example)!
The US only has made a science out of propaganda (see Walter Lippman & Edward Bernays) and the capital to pay for it all over the word (NED/bellingcat/victims of communism foundation/radio free liberty|europe|iraq|asia/“congress for cultural freedom” and other direct CIA derivatives)
Its whole shtick is to manufacture narratives to paint your opponent so bad that you appear without alternative. Be it domestically (presidential elections) or abroad (country x is ruled by the next hitler)
I am not gonna attempt to compile a list, bc i would want have to add sources and I am tired to loom that up. But start with Operation Condor since OP kindly mentioned that, but the rabbit hole goes deep
I think what a “bad” country is should be properly defined if this argument were to continue. Are we comparing what impact countries have had on the world overall? If so, what exactly is a negative impact and how do you measure it?What time frame are we looking at?
While I think it would be interesting to do so, I’m not the person to continue this argument further. I don’t know enough, nor do I have the time to learn enough to do the topic justice. I guess we can just agree that the US sucks.
I appreciate the honest response and honestly I relate to the sentiment of not engaging in this discussion further as these are typically extremely wide ranging and require a lot of contextualisation, doing this online can be extremely exhausting.
But I find the question you are raising quite interesting as to how exactly a countries (govs) impact on the progress of humanity is to be defined.
This is exactly the direction in which I was thinking to go when I was considering to compile a list.
Thanks for the compliment about my username;)
I don’t really associate your name with anything concrete but I assume there was a drug trafficker from LA who was referred to by that name?
I am not from the states so I might not know everybody that has become infamous like that!
I’ll admit I’m not an expert on this but I don’t think that’s right. What about Russia or China? I would also say that many smaller countries are far worse than the US, but their atrocities are on a much smaller scale given their fewer resources.
Nothing Russia or China have done even comes close. US has been at war for 92% of its existence. It has been invading countries and killing countless millions of people while creating incredible amounts of human suffering for the survivors of US aggression. US massacred over 6 million people with its war on terror alone.
On top of that, US has been destabilizing countries, overthrowing democracies, and putting in despotic dictatorships like Pinochet in Chile. Entire books have been written documenting these crimes against humanity.
On the other hand, China hasn’t been at war since the 70s, and it certainly has the same resources available to it to wage war that US does. Instead, it chooses to peacefully create mutually beneficial relationships with countries. Russia has been at war, but even the war in Ukraine doesn’t begin to compare to atrocities such as the invasion of Iraq and the war on terror.
If you’re an American, then you should be deeply ashamed of your ignorance regarding what your country does. The people of US are directly responsible for the crimes they allow their government to commit. The blood is on your hands.
edit: I love how mad you’re all getting when faced with the basic facts about your shithole nation. America is the genocidal regime and a plight upon the world. And since you all claim to have a democracy over there, you are all personally responsible for the atrocities your regime commits.
You enable them and benefit from them while pretending that it’s actually the other countries that are the problem instead of doing any self reflection and fixing your own shithole. You are the most deplorable nation, unable to even look in the mirror.
Practically all the stories we see about China trace back to Adrian Zenz is a far right fundamentalist nutcase and not a reliable source for any sort of information. The fact that he’s the primary source for practically every article in western media demonstrates precisely what I’m talking about when I say that coverage is divorced from reality.
Along with his “mission” against China, heavenly guidance has apparently prompted Zenz to denounce homosexuality, gender equality, and the banning of physical punishment against children as threats to Christianity.
The fact that this nutcase is being paraded as a credible researcher on the subject is absolutely surreal, and it’s clear that the methodology of his “research” doesn’t pass any kind of muster when examined closely.
Meanwhile, the Great Leap Forward was a flawed policy as opposed to intentional genocide which is what US regularly commits. However, even that is eclipsed by the sheer scale of the genocide US committed against the native population.
While you are working on your imaginary enemy Zenz, there are outside of your bubble, i.e. in real life, a lot of independent contemporary witnesses who were able to escape and made their experience public
In real life we have far more concrete evidence for the concentration camps US has on its border, and the the fact that you lot keep trying to find some genocide in China while ignoring the one US does really shows that you don’t care about people one bit. You’re just racists who hate China and everybody outside your bubble of racists knows this. You are very transparent.
You seem to just disregard everything any country does unless its the US. You are also only looking at what countries have done outside their borders, which I don’t think is the best way to look at it.
And since you all claim to have a democracy over there, you are all personally responsible for the atrocities your regime commits.
The people of US are directly responsible for the crimes they allow their government to commit. The blood is on your hands.
This is completely nonsensical and just plain stupid. Even if our democracy actually worked, I would be 1/150 million votes. My bad, next time I’ll just vote differently. Problem solved!
You enable them and benefit from them while pretending that it’s actually the other countries that are the problem instead of doing any self reflection and fixing your own shithole.
I don’t see anyone claiming it’s without issue. They were responding to where you ignored everything wrong China has done, clearly demonstrating your bias. You ignored or downplayed every point they brought up just so you could feel like China was the good guy.
Trust me, no nation state is the good guy. They don’t do things just because they are good, or just because they are bad. They are all selfish and greedy, they pay no mind to the lives they trample over to achieve glory and power. The CCP would brutally murder you in a second flat if it meant they were an inch closer to their goals. There is no point in defending them.
You seem to just disregard everything any country does unless its the US. You are also only looking at what countries have done outside their borders, which I don’t think is the best way to look at it.
No.
This is completely nonsensical and just plain stupid. Even if our democracy actually worked, I would be 1/150 million votes. My bad, next time I’ll just vote differently. Problem solved!
The government of a country that calls itself democratic represents the will of the people in that country. That’s literally what a democracy is. Either US is an authoritarian regime where the government is not implementing the wishes of the people, or the people of US are responsible for what US government is doing. Can’t have it both ways.
I don’t see anyone claiming it’s without issue. They were responding to where you ignored everything wrong China has done, clearly demonstrating your bias. You ignored or downplayed every point they brought up just so you could feel like China was the good guy.
The whole context of this thread is that China hasn’t done anything that even begins to compare to what US does. Yet, you point fingers at China instead of fixing your own country or even taking responsibility for what your country does. This is a morally bankrupt position.
Trust me, no nation state is the good guy. They don’t do things just because they are good, or just because they are bad. They are all selfish and greedy, they pay no mind to the lives they trample over to achieve glory and power. The CCP would brutally murder you in a second flat if it meant they were an inch closer to their goals. There is no point in defending them.
China lifted over 800 million people out of poverty and CPC continues to ensure that the quality of life for people in China is improving each and every year. Seems to me that those are much better goals than starting wars around the globe and murdering people which is what US does.
Either US is an authoritarian regime where the government is not implementing the wishes of the people, or the people of US are responsible for what US government is doing.
It effectively is an authoritarian regime with no regard for its peoples wishes. Whatever democracy we have does not work.
Yet, you point fingers at China instead of fixing your own country or even taking responsibility for what your country does.
I don’t need to take responsibility for it. I have yet to commit any war crimes or massacre innocent people. I do acknowledge that the US has done so, however.
China lifted over 800 million people out of poverty and CPC continues to ensure that the quality of life for people in China is improving each and every year.
China oppresses its people far more than the US. Its not even a competition. Tell the Uyghurs about that “quality of life”.
It effectively is an authoritarian regime with no regard for its peoples wishes. Whatever democracy we have does not work.
Then perhaps Americans should fixing on their own country instead of fixating on what countries like China might be doing. US has no moral right to play global police, and people in US have no moral ground to criticize other countries.
I don’t need to take responsibility for it. I have yet to commit any war crimes or massacre innocent people. I do acknowledge that the US has done so, however.
As a citizen of US you bear responsibility for what your country does. People in US directly benefit from the global plundering and exploitation that US does, and unless you’re actively working on changing that then you are part of the system that enables these atrocities.
China oppresses its people far more than the US. Its not even a competition. Tell the Uyghurs about that “quality of life”.
Have you met any Uyghurs living in China. You just admitted that you live in an oppressive authoritarian regime, but you completely believe what it tells you about China?
However, truth leaks even into western media now and then, here’s what an actual Uyghur interviewed by AP has to say
Meanwhile, US has the highest incarceration rate in the world, far higher than China. And the prisoners are routinely used as literal slave labour. That’s the country that oppresses its people, and you’re right that it’s not even a competition because China doesn’t do anything of the sort.
As a citizen of US you bear responsibility for what your country does. People in US directly benefit from the global plundering and exploitation that US does, and unless you’re actively working on changing that then you are part of the system that enables these atrocities.
I don’t enable anything. I am stripped of my power on purpose so I can’t stop this. I have no choice, there is absolutely nothing I can do. Its completely absurd that you think I can just go fix it. How do you suppose I do that exactly? Not only can I not stop it, but it does not benefit me. It benefits a very small minority of Americans who have infinitely more power and money than I do.
You just admitted that you live in an oppressive authoritarian regime, but you completely believe what it tells you about China?
My news sources are not the american government. I have the freedom to get real information unlike citizens of China.
That’s the country that oppresses its people,
and you’re right that it’s not even a competition because China doesn’t do anything of the sort.
You seriously think China doesn’t oppress its people at all? I can’t even fathom the amount of evidence you have to disregard to believe that.
Its not good, its just not as horrible when compared to a lot of other countries.
Tough to defend position if you only consider systems intact today (and thereby filtering out nazi-Germany for example)!
The US only has made a science out of propaganda (see Walter Lippman & Edward Bernays) and the capital to pay for it all over the word (NED/bellingcat/victims of communism foundation/radio free liberty|europe|iraq|asia/“congress for cultural freedom” and other direct CIA derivatives)
Its whole shtick is to manufacture narratives to paint your opponent so bad that you appear without alternative. Be it domestically (presidential elections) or abroad (country x is ruled by the next hitler)
I am not gonna attempt to compile a list, bc i would want have to add sources and I am tired to loom that up. But start with Operation Condor since OP kindly mentioned that, but the rabbit hole goes deep
I think what a “bad” country is should be properly defined if this argument were to continue. Are we comparing what impact countries have had on the world overall? If so, what exactly is a negative impact and how do you measure it?What time frame are we looking at?
While I think it would be interesting to do so, I’m not the person to continue this argument further. I don’t know enough, nor do I have the time to learn enough to do the topic justice. I guess we can just agree that the US sucks.
Also cool username, its kinda like mine.
I appreciate the honest response and honestly I relate to the sentiment of not engaging in this discussion further as these are typically extremely wide ranging and require a lot of contextualisation, doing this online can be extremely exhausting.
But I find the question you are raising quite interesting as to how exactly a countries (govs) impact on the progress of humanity is to be defined. This is exactly the direction in which I was thinking to go when I was considering to compile a list.
Thanks for the compliment about my username;) I don’t really associate your name with anything concrete but I assume there was a drug trafficker from LA who was referred to by that name? I am not from the states so I might not know everybody that has become infamous like that!
Literally can’t think of any single country that comes even close to the amount of atrocities US regularly commits around the globe.
I’ll admit I’m not an expert on this but I don’t think that’s right. What about Russia or China? I would also say that many smaller countries are far worse than the US, but their atrocities are on a much smaller scale given their fewer resources.
Nothing Russia or China have done even comes close. US has been at war for 92% of its existence. It has been invading countries and killing countless millions of people while creating incredible amounts of human suffering for the survivors of US aggression. US massacred over 6 million people with its war on terror alone.
On top of that, US has been destabilizing countries, overthrowing democracies, and putting in despotic dictatorships like Pinochet in Chile. Entire books have been written documenting these crimes against humanity.
On the other hand, China hasn’t been at war since the 70s, and it certainly has the same resources available to it to wage war that US does. Instead, it chooses to peacefully create mutually beneficial relationships with countries. Russia has been at war, but even the war in Ukraine doesn’t begin to compare to atrocities such as the invasion of Iraq and the war on terror.
If you’re an American, then you should be deeply ashamed of your ignorance regarding what your country does. The people of US are directly responsible for the crimes they allow their government to commit. The blood is on your hands.
edit: I love how mad you’re all getting when faced with the basic facts about your shithole nation. America is the genocidal regime and a plight upon the world. And since you all claim to have a democracy over there, you are all personally responsible for the atrocities your regime commits.
You enable them and benefit from them while pretending that it’s actually the other countries that are the problem instead of doing any self reflection and fixing your own shithole. You are the most deplorable nation, unable to even look in the mirror.
Any thoughts on the Great Leap Forward? How about the Uyghur genocide?
deleted by creator
Uyghur genocide is a US made up conspiracy theory that’s been thoroughly debunked, and it’s frankly incredible that people keep regurgitating it.
The millions of Uyghurs being supposedly imprisoned story is based on two highly dubious “studies.”. CHRD states that it interviewed dozens of ethnic Uyghurs in the course of its study, but their enormous estimate was ultimately based on interviews with exactly eight Uyghur individuals. Based on this absurdly small sample of research subjects in an area whose total population is 20 million, CHRD “extrapolated estimates” that “at least 10% of villagers […] are being detained in re-education detention camps, and 20% are being forced to attend day/evening re-education camps in the villages or townships, totaling 30% in both types of camps.” Furthermore, it doesn’t even make sense from logistics perspective. You’d need a detention city the size of San Francisco to detain one million Uighurs.
Practically all the stories we see about China trace back to Adrian Zenz is a far right fundamentalist nutcase and not a reliable source for any sort of information. The fact that he’s the primary source for practically every article in western media demonstrates precisely what I’m talking about when I say that coverage is divorced from reality.
Zenz is a born-again Christian who lectures at the European School of Culture and Theology. This anodyne-sounding campus is actually the German base of Columbia International University, a US-based evangelical Christian seminary which considers the “Bible to be the ultimate foundation and the final truth in every aspect of our lives,” and whose mission is to “educate people from a biblical worldview to impact the nations with the message of Christ.”
Zenz’s work on China is inspired by this biblical worldview, as he recently explained in an interview with the Wall Street Journal. “I feel very clearly led by God to do this,” he said. “I can put it that way. I’m not afraid to say that. With Xinjiang, things really changed. It became like a mission, or a ministry.”.
Along with his “mission” against China, heavenly guidance has apparently prompted Zenz to denounce homosexuality, gender equality, and the banning of physical punishment against children as threats to Christianity.
Zenz outlined these views in a book he co-authored in 2012, titled Worthy to Escape: Why All Believers Will Not Be Raptured Before the Tribulation. In the tome, Zenz discussed the return of Jesus Christ, the coming wrath of God, and the rise of the Antichrist.
The fact that this nutcase is being paraded as a credible researcher on the subject is absolutely surreal, and it’s clear that the methodology of his “research” doesn’t pass any kind of muster when examined closely.
Meanwhile, the Great Leap Forward was a flawed policy as opposed to intentional genocide which is what US regularly commits. However, even that is eclipsed by the sheer scale of the genocide US committed against the native population.
While you are working on your imaginary enemy Zenz, there are outside of your bubble, i.e. in real life, a lot of independent contemporary witnesses who were able to escape and made their experience public
In real life we have far more concrete evidence for the concentration camps US has on its border, and the the fact that you lot keep trying to find some genocide in China while ignoring the one US does really shows that you don’t care about people one bit. You’re just racists who hate China and everybody outside your bubble of racists knows this. You are very transparent.
These are some hot takes. Now do Tian An Men square
You seem to just disregard everything any country does unless its the US. You are also only looking at what countries have done outside their borders, which I don’t think is the best way to look at it.
This is completely nonsensical and just plain stupid. Even if our democracy actually worked, I would be 1/150 million votes. My bad, next time I’ll just vote differently. Problem solved!
I don’t see anyone claiming it’s without issue. They were responding to where you ignored everything wrong China has done, clearly demonstrating your bias. You ignored or downplayed every point they brought up just so you could feel like China was the good guy.
Trust me, no nation state is the good guy. They don’t do things just because they are good, or just because they are bad. They are all selfish and greedy, they pay no mind to the lives they trample over to achieve glory and power. The CCP would brutally murder you in a second flat if it meant they were an inch closer to their goals. There is no point in defending them.
No.
The government of a country that calls itself democratic represents the will of the people in that country. That’s literally what a democracy is. Either US is an authoritarian regime where the government is not implementing the wishes of the people, or the people of US are responsible for what US government is doing. Can’t have it both ways.
The whole context of this thread is that China hasn’t done anything that even begins to compare to what US does. Yet, you point fingers at China instead of fixing your own country or even taking responsibility for what your country does. This is a morally bankrupt position.
China lifted over 800 million people out of poverty and CPC continues to ensure that the quality of life for people in China is improving each and every year. Seems to me that those are much better goals than starting wars around the globe and murdering people which is what US does.
Not really a response but ok.
It effectively is an authoritarian regime with no regard for its peoples wishes. Whatever democracy we have does not work.
I don’t need to take responsibility for it. I have yet to commit any war crimes or massacre innocent people. I do acknowledge that the US has done so, however.
China oppresses its people far more than the US. Its not even a competition. Tell the Uyghurs about that “quality of life”.
Then perhaps Americans should fixing on their own country instead of fixating on what countries like China might be doing. US has no moral right to play global police, and people in US have no moral ground to criticize other countries.
As a citizen of US you bear responsibility for what your country does. People in US directly benefit from the global plundering and exploitation that US does, and unless you’re actively working on changing that then you are part of the system that enables these atrocities.
Have you met any Uyghurs living in China. You just admitted that you live in an oppressive authoritarian regime, but you completely believe what it tells you about China?
However, truth leaks even into western media now and then, here’s what an actual Uyghur interviewed by AP has to say
Here’s the GDP in Xinjiang going up 5.1% which is directly resulting in the quality of life improving https://www.globaltimes.cn/page/202307/1295093.shtml
Meanwhile, US has the highest incarceration rate in the world, far higher than China. And the prisoners are routinely used as literal slave labour. That’s the country that oppresses its people, and you’re right that it’s not even a competition because China doesn’t do anything of the sort.
I don’t enable anything. I am stripped of my power on purpose so I can’t stop this. I have no choice, there is absolutely nothing I can do. Its completely absurd that you think I can just go fix it. How do you suppose I do that exactly? Not only can I not stop it, but it does not benefit me. It benefits a very small minority of Americans who have infinitely more power and money than I do.
My news sources are not the american government. I have the freedom to get real information unlike citizens of China.
You seriously think China doesn’t oppress its people at all? I can’t even fathom the amount of evidence you have to disregard to believe that.