Sure X isn’t a hot mess unlike wayland… sure…
X has been tepid for at least a decade.
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But hey - Metro runs perfectly fine, that’s all I need.
As someone using Wayland I can confirm it’s indeed not a hot a mess
Okay, but that would have made a shitty joke wouldn’t it?
Hmm… I don’t know maybe it’s fine as a joke.
Can I use AwesomeWM, XMonad, or StumpWM on Wayland?
Can I run a GUI program over ssh?
Does it support the X selection and clipboard protocols?
(These are not rhetorical questions, I’m really asking.)
No you cannot run any of those WMs, some of those do have ports with varying degrees of completeness but only sway(i3) and hyprland(hypr) are ready for prime time.
Yes, using waypipe
Yes, primary selection does work along with Ctrl+c although as others have mentioned it forgets when the app you copied from gets closed
Can I use AwesomeWM, XMonad, or StumpWM on Wayland?
Can you run macos software on linux?
Can I run a GUI program over ssh?
This is more of a why would you… Although, waypipe
Does it support the X selection and clipboard protocols?
Too lazy to google, but overall clipboard works as expected, both C-c and text selection. I remember experiencing problems with clipboards in vim (like 2 yrs ago) which were fixed by switching to nvim
Wayland only keeps the clipboard until the application exits. This means a clipboard manager is basically a requirement. Iirc desktop environments might solve those issues by default, but on a standalone compositor just add a clipboard manager and enjoy the history.
Correct, yet I personally don’t find it too useful and sometimes harmful when dealing with, for example, password managers
I’ve added a keybind for deleting history, but it’d be great to have a way to specify short lived clipboard entries. But this might also be one of those standards that no one implements.
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Seconded. Although that very much depends on the compositor of choice: I’ve been trying out a few new shiny things (well, pinnacle, strata, buddaraysh), and they aren’t exactly usable rn. With the exception of the latter one, probably (since the author claims to use it), but I haven’t been able to start it so far… On the other hand, major players like hyprland and sway work perfectly fine on my machine :tm
I’m on KWin Wayland, it also works great. I actually never noticed that I was switched from X11 to Wayland when I reinstalled Debian.
I personally run sway. I was really looking forward to kiwmi but that project looks dead
OK cool. When will it support nVidia?
inb4 it’s nShitia who must support Wayland
Wayland compositors run entirely in userspace and do not interact directly with hardware drivers. If Wayland doesn’t work on nVidia but X does, it’s a Wayland problem.
Compositors do directly interact with the drivers though. The reason Wayland doesn’t work on Nvidia is because Wayland uses an API called GBM(generic buffer management) to draw directly to the Linux VT. The Nvidia drivers don’t implement that API, the API that both AMD and Intel drivers support. It very much IS an Nvidia problem and not the other way around. Nvidia tried to convince all the Wayland developers to use EGLStreams instead but no other drivers use(or even support) that API, everyone agreed on GBM except Nvidia. That’s not Wayland’s problem.
Iirc Nvidia also skipped the initial meetings that AMD and Intel attended, where it was decided they would move forward with GBM
Amusing video covering this topic https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5VGMdLAKQ0c
😂 But X is a very old spaghetti code from the 80s and is a security nightmare. I use X, btw!
Third options?
If you only use the CLI, you don’t need X or Wayland.
A while ago as an experiment I set up a new system and decided to see just how much I could get done without installing a graphical environment. Most of my work happens in Neovim and there are plenty of applications that will do things like play video directly to a framebuffer so it should be pretty straightforward right? Turns out not really. Neovim will run in a kernel VT, but it’ll be … messy. The kernel virtual terminal is only designed to be good enough to use to install a desktop manager or repair your configuration. It’s not meant to be used full time. It only supports 16 colors which breaks just about every color scheme out there. It also only supports specially converted pixel fonts, meaning your choices of font size are somewhat restricted, ligatures are a complete no go, you can pretty much forget about nerdfonts (unless you wanna do a lot of work) and the only way to change fonts or font sizes is to use the setfont command which only works if run directly in the terminal as opposed to inside e.g. tmux.
It’s usable in a pinch, but I do not recommend.
Did you do much browsing? Lynx is a thing, but it can’t do JavaScript.
Come to think of it, is there a CLI Lemmy client?
Nice! I knew it had to be a thing.
I just kinda used my phone for that. Like I said, not a good experience. Elinks and Links2 are marginally better than the trash fire that is Lynx, and I remember a while ago there was a project that would run Firefox in headless mode and cram its output into a terminal (wish I could remember what it was called), but you’re not really gonna get a browser in a terminal no matter what you do
I’m absolutely fascinated if somebody can point me to that.
How well did it render most sites, compared to the other CLI browsers?
Found it again after a bit of googling. It’s called Browsh. Haven’t played with it yet (will report back when I do) but from the demo on that github page it seems to work pretty well.
UPDATE: I’ve tried it out and hooooly craaaaaap this is good. If I didn’t know this was running in a terminal I would never have guessed. I would’ve just assumed it was a novelty browser meant to evoke that style. Smooth scrolling works astonishingly well as does video playback.
You can use fbterm if you want to use TTF fonts. It even works with nerdfonts, although the rendering is not quite right. It does support 256 colors, although the way it implements colors makes it a pain to use.
TIL of fbterm. I’ll def check it out when I get a chance.
How did you get ligatures working with neovim?
Any good terminal emulator has them. Personally I use Konsole, but I’d be remiss if I didn’t mention Neovide which supports them as well. It’s a bit like a terminal emulator that can only run Neovim and has some Neovim-specific settings and integration (e.g. change window opacity with a Vim command, animated scrolling, plus that funky little animated cursor effect you can see on the website), and as a bonus it supports Windows and MacOS
if you’re a heathen
Absolute chad.
(Mandatory disclaimer that I actually think the anti-GUI jerk goes too far)
TempleOS? Not sure if it runs X or not, but it sure is solid.
improvable, also wayland problem isn’t fundamental, is the slowness to merge new protocols, wlroots, for example, add protocols that aren’t approved in the wayland gitlab to make it work better, so… third option is wayland, with protocols waiting for approval(that can be updated later if the protocol changes idk)
also nvidia, but that can’t be fixed with a third option anyway
to be fair people need to read the gitlab discutions, the devs there aren’t approving protocol just because the sake of it, is really hard to make things work securely and on every plataform, also, there things that really don’t need a protocol to work, look at the QT handoff that fixes an issue that even on xorg wasn’t fixed, and without needing a new protocol
other than that, certaing things like the tearing could have being merged earlier lol
Windows…
Blasphemy! And also I’m poor, although I guess if I really wanted to run spyware as my kernel I could pirate it.
But yeah, I’m getting the sense those are the two games in town, Linux-wise.
The kernel is fine, it’s been in the hands of pretty cool people since at least NT. As for the stuff running on it, well… 😗🎶
Really? Is it open source, or are we just going by reputation of the developers?
I actually don’t know much about the kernel they use, I was really just trying to emphasise the level of trust you put in your OS.
Easy, because Cinnamon is on X. When Cinnamon is on Wayland, so will I (and when I don’t have an Nvidia GPU, I guess).
Same here. Sure, KDE and Gnome may have great Wayland support by now, but what about other DEs? The situation in XFCE seems to be pretty grim:
It is not clear yet which Xfce release will target a complete Xfce Wayland transition (or if such a transition will happen at all).
MATE seems to have piecemeal support. No idea what the status of LXDE/LXQT are. And there are plenty of other window managers that don’t have the manpower to support wayland either.
The deprecation of X is going to leave a lot of dead software in its wake.
Yeah, people like to pretend KDE and Gnome are the only options. I dislike both. Cinnamon is the (unintended?) spiritual successor to the last Gnome I liked, which is Gnome 2.
It’s very much intended. Cinnamon was forked from GNOME 3 when it was released. It was intended to preserve the old GNOME 2 layout, but ended up evolving into the Cinnamon we know today.
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NVidia RTX3070 here - absolutely no issues with Hyprland. Installed it like you would on any other system and i’m good to go.
Only thing i miss is just as @[email protected] mentioned, i can’t use Green With Envy. Don’t need it though.
But NVidia isn’t a barrier for wayland anymore.
But NVidia isn’t a barrier for wayland anymore.
I disagree. When I used it recently it was still very much subpar compared to the AMD experience. It’s usable, but not to the point that I would like to use it.
I installed Garuda-Hyprland on my RTX3070 last week.
And i have literally zero issues. Might go into detail what exactly you had issues with?
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And that’s a totally valid approach. I didn’t want to push anyone into Wayland, i’ve dragged my X11 setup with me for as long as i wanted. I just wanted to show that NVidia is not the barrier anymore.
Also for gwe it was Nvidia that didn’t support stuff it needed for Wayland. However it does now. I just need to implement a whole new api
The only reason why I am still on x11 is Green with envy. It doesn’t support Wayland yet.
And somehow I got into being a maintainer and now it is my job to fix that.
No Barrier for Wayland. :(
I actually quite like wayland
I too like my macros not working
Idk what the problem with you setup is but fir me every macro i have works. Be it programmed into my mouse or defined by my WM
Insert comment about the window icon protocol here
What about windows icon protocol ?
Apparently there’s a massive controversy over what should be an extremely minute detail
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As usual it’s implementation if I’m not mistaken. Some say it should just be the icon on the .desktop file and move on with it, others JUST HATE THE CONCEPT OF THE DOT DESKTOP AND yada yada yada, others still want an implementation that allows on a per window basis, etc, etc, etc
Forcing the icon from the .desktop file seems stupid, every window could need a different icon (e.g. contact list window and chat windows of an IM app, or browser windows using the website favicon)…
I’m confused, wayland.social is just another mastodon instance, yes? EDIT: Oh presumably it’s a joke
It’s a Linux joke. Basically, the X display server is an unmaintainable mess, so it is being phased out in favor of Wayland.
