- cross-posted to:
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- cross-posted to:
- [email protected]
In the spring of 2020, when President Donald J. Trump wrote messages on Twitter warning that increased reliance on mail-in ballots would lead to a “rigged election,” the platform ran a corrective, debunking his claims.
“Get the facts about mail-in voting,” a content label read. “Experts say mail-in ballots are very rarely linked to voter fraud,” the hyperlinked article declared.
This month, Elon Musk, who has since bought Twitter and rebranded it X, echoed several of Mr. Trump’s claims about the American voting system, putting forth distorted and false notions that American elections were wide open for fraud and illegal voting by noncitizens.
This time, there were no fact checks. And the X algorithm — under Mr. Musk’s direct control — helped the posts reach large audiences, in some cases drawing many millions of views.
Since taking control of the site, Mr. Musk has dismantled the platform’s system for flagging false election content, arguing it amounted to election interference.
You did not need an ID to vote for almost the entire history of the U.S. and no one had a problem with that.
Oregon has been entirely vote by mail since 1998. A voter ID is not required. There have been no significant issues.
So you point out why mail-in voting with no ID is a bad thing. Because it has been demonstrated to work without problems.
The military has had it since the civil war.
https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/2020-election/how-do-you-know-voting-mail-works-u-s-military-n1186926
This person thinks that somehow non-citizens can register to vote. Been listening to too many Trump speeches, I guess.
Because we’ve all seen how fraudulent people can be right?
This is minor, but take a video game for example - even with nothing to gain, lots of systems have to be put in place because people go out of their way to game the systems and cheat.
Why would something with actual consequences be any different? Why wouldn’t you have even the simplest system in the way of that?
Please present evidence of this fraud. You should be able to easily show it happening in Oregon. You have over 25 years’ worth of elections to find evidence for.
I’m asking why you don’t want to protect your system and all you have to offer is “well it’s worked gud for 20+ years!”
You sound like a conservative
“It’s worked without any problems for 25 years” is not good enough? Why? How many more years does it need to work without any fraud for you to accept that it is not an issue? 40 years? 80 years? 150 years?
It’s like driving on an icy road - it’s all good until it isnt
So there’s no evidence of fraud, there’s no indication of fraud, there’s no mechanism for fraud because of the way it is done, but you want it to be scrapped because maybe possibly fraud?
That makes absolutely no sense.
Feels over reals.
I’ve never been in a car accident, but I still have insurance and put on a seatbelt. Precautions, ya know?
By your election logic, I’ve been good for 20+ years and shouldn’t need either of those
Maybe you don’t understand how voting by mail works in Oregon.
The person registers to vote. They give their specific name and address. During the election, the ballot is sent to that specific person at that specific address. The person votes, signs the back, and mails it back.
Where in that scenario do you envision the fraud to be able to occur? Specifically.
Your example doesn’t make any sense. You’ve never been in an accident but accidents happen all the time to people. That’s why you put on a seat belt. People die everyday.
Now point out election frauds happening because of mail voting. Hard evidence
You’ve never been in a car accident, but car accidents do happen, and frequently enough that there’s still a very good chance it will one day effect you.
The same is not true for your election logic.
but we can still point at people who have been in car accidents, people who have been injured or died from car accidents.
If no one (or almoast no one) had ever died been in a car accident, including death, injury, or just a fender bender, then carrying insurance or wearing a seatbelt wouldnt be needed.
If we had evidence of evidence of rampant/widespread voter fraud via mail in ballots, then overhauling or getting rid of the system would be needed.
“here’s a road, there have been no accidents on it for 25 years. I’m saying, without proof, that its icy and we need to rip the road out. not to rebuild it, not fix it by spreading sand or salt, just tear it out.”
Asking for ID during an election is the “putting salt/rocks” on the road.
It’s not the equivalent of ripping out the entire road
why? Theres no evidence of ice (ie voter fraud)?
No, you sound like a conservative. As in you’re literally repeating their talking points.
Along with Flying Squid’s request, can you show examples of voter fraud that would have changed an outcome? Or maybe what impact each case has? One person trying to vote twice in the same election at best might affect a local small race.
The numbers are actually pretty small, and ironically the group claiming there are voting issues (republicans) are the ones primarily getting caught doing it.
You’re arguing based on a scenario that has historically never happened on a level where it has had an effect on any election, past present or even recent.
To be fair, I don’t think there’s harm in there being a voter ID, but there’s no evidence of there being an issue for it not being there either. The biggest issue would likely be it would take time, and the world has to keep moving.
There is.
https://www.brennancenter.org/our-work/research-reports/impact-voter-suppression-communities-color
Thank you for providing a rational answer