that is entirely because android phone manufacturers are copying apple and doing it even worse, not because apple is somehow good. the fairphone has seven hears of support, and before the smartphone era, you had no issues keeping a phone for a similarly long time.
apple made this model of limited software support, and they do their damn best to enforce it, by revoking the new ios from their devices five years after release on average, and actively pushing developers to only support the latest ios. yes, it’s better than most android manufacturers ensuring your phone gets slow about twice as fast but it’s still anti-consumer.
and again, when my last xiaomi phone did that to me, i bought a fairphone, not another xiaomi. buying again from the same company that screwed you over is lunacy.
Most iPhones only last 5 years from release to when they lose the latest iOS. Currently the record holder is the 6S with its 83 months, which is almost on par with the Fairphone, but it’s important to note that on iPhone if you don’t have the latest iOS you’ll slowly but surely lose apps, while on Android you can be 4-5 versions behind and still be just fine because that’s the development target. And yes, you can use an iPhone that’s no longer compatible with a bunch of apps, but at that point what’s the difference between that and using an old Android phone?
Also, sure, most Android phones indeed do worse than iOS, but that was never my point. My point is that this is a problem Apple manufactured out of thin air when they created the modern smartphone paradigm with the iPhone, and then Android manufacturers copied them and made it even worse. But that doesn’t make the iPhone’s planned obsolescence problem any less anti-consumer, it just means there’s even worse stuff on the market.
If you stop thinking about it as an us vs them between Apple and non-Apple, and start thinking about it as “are those corpos ripping us off” it’s a lot easier to wrap your head around this. Yes, I know the Apple mindset is about supporting the scrappy little underdog that’s fighting the evil Gates, but they’re no longer the scrappy little underdog, they’re literally the largest corporation on the planet. They became the very thing they swore to destroy.
iPhone 8 is 6 years old and still runs the latest iOS version. Apple may have made the smartphone popular and mainstream, they didn’t do what android developers do which is leave modern handsets in the cold.
If we look at the question of is a phone usable like the old days you keep referring to, they work fine for phone calls and sms. If you want to run the latest apps with the latest iOS version 6 years or a bit more seems to be the limit. Which is reasonable.
If we look at security releases Apple is still updating iOS 15 which supports the iPhone 6s released back in 2015.
Many arguments can be made against the Apple approach to software and their walled garden.
I’m saying you can’t make those same complaints against ongoing software support as they are leaders in that.
If you stop thinking about it as an us vs them between Apple and non-Apple, and start thinking about it as “are those corpos ripping us off” it’s a lot easier to wrap your head around this.
Your entire point is that Apple is not bad because the general state of Android is worse. I’m calling both bad. And I’m blaming Apple for leading that trend – which also doesn’t absolve most Android manufacturers from following that trend, but Apple still made it.
Also, this whole debate is in the context of a bill that mandates that phone manufacturers make batteries replaceable. The Android side of things actually had that for a long time, while Apple has been doing unibody phones from the beginning and hammered that idea into the whole industry through years of insistence. That’s why I put so much of the blame on them.
You brought up the software support issue and I corrected you as you are wrong. Apple didn’t start anything and lead the industry in ongoing software support.
In my opinion legislating replaceable batteries is anti-consumer as they will be forced into wider devices that aren’t waterproof. I would prefer that they legislated that battery replacement guides be made available by the manufacturer with genuine parts made available at a low profit margin to enable user replacement with the correct tools.
I’m not ignoring anything, I am trying to be factual and provide accurate information about software support periods.
If I’m being idealistic, I’d prefer that all devices support foss and that vendor blobs aren’t required, that is more important than bringing back carrying a spare battery in your bag. Until then we have patchy android software support and Apple’s closed ecosystem as the only major players.
The Samsung Xcover6 is waterproof. The Samsung Galaxy S5 was waterproof nearly ten years ago. Both of these phones have toolless user-replaceable batteries. This excuse is moot and always has been. (On the same note, both of these phones have a headphone jack as well, which is also often brought up as “impossible to waterproof”.)
But the legislation is not even calling for that. There is nothing in the law preventing a company from making a waterproof phone (and I would be strongly against it if there was), and there is actually not even any text preventing the use of screws for battery replacement. It just calls for it to be easy. That’s an engineering challenge, and Apple has many smart engineers who could figure this out – for example, they could go back to the two screws next to the charging port to open up the phone (they’d just have to make them torx or phillips, not pentalobe, since proprietary tools are prohibited by the same legislation) and not glue in the battery. They don’t have to adopt the Fairphone’s or the Xcover6’s style, they have options, the law only mandates the end result, not the method.
But also, your idealized phone exists, it’s called the Fairphone. It’s very likely that it greatly influenced the EU’s decisionmaking on this one by providing an example of what a phone can be like.
As for this:
Apple didn’t start anything and lead the industry in ongoing software support.
So you deny that the iPhone ushered in an entirely new paradigm for phones that was wildly different from anything ever before? Because that’s where we lost the mindset of using a phone literally until it breaks, no time limits, just like you can do it today with a laptop, or you could always do on a “dumb phone”. You can’t both credit them for inventing this whole new class of devices but refuse to blame them for the planned obsolescence built into that class of devices from the very beginning.
Xcover 6 is 9.9mm and IP68 dust/water resistant (up to 1.5m for 35 min)
iPhone 14 is 7.8mm and IP68 dust/water resistant (up to 6m for 30 min)
Galaxy S5 is 8.1mm and IP67 dust/water resistant (up to 1m for 30 min)
Fairphone 4 is 10.5mm and IP54, dust and splash resistant
You can see thickness is increased to support replaceable batteries, and the S5 has a lower IP rating with the Fairphone 4 having a terrible rating.
As for the iPhone, the LG Prada was first. If we allow buttons Blackberry and Nokia n95 were doing smartphones well before Apple. My comment about FOSS and no vendor blobs wasn’t that such a product doesn’t exist, it was that legislation to open up the hardware would provide more consumer benefits than thicker phones with lower water ratings. With how popular power banks are I can’t see people carrying replacement batteries around like they did in the 90s - 2000s.
Forcing all manufacturers into right to repair is valid and needs to be done, I think trying to bring back popping the cover off phones to slap a spare battery is has passed and we would be better served with detailed guides from manufactures, and cheaper to access genuine parts including batteries. We should also have protections against warranties being void if a battery is replaced.
But the legislation is not even calling for that. There is nothing in the law preventing a company from making a waterproof phone (and I would be strongly against it if there was), and there is actually not even any text preventing the use of screws for battery replacement. It just calls for it to be easy.
This means that a customer will have to able to remove and replace the battery of the device easily and without tools.
The EU will introduce the new law to make it easier to recycle batteries, make smartphones easier to repair and to reduce the amount of e-waste.
The vote was approved by European Council and Parliament and will come into effect by 2027.
This means that a customer will have to able to remove and replace the battery of the device easily and without tools.
Are we seriously talking about the 2mm difference between the iPhone 14 and the Xcover 6? If that’s what we need to give up then so be it, it’s such an arbitrary metric. The point isn’t to eliminate the need for power banks, it’s about replacing the internal battery when it is inevitably worn out, which is currently the main component that’s enforcing a limited lifetime on the device.
Also, I’m fairly sure the law says no proprietary tools, not no tools whatsoever. But no tools would also be doable, as proven by the Xcover 6, which is realistically on par with the iPhone at the cost of 2mm. I trust that Apple would be able to shave that down too if they actually tried.
that is entirely because android phone manufacturers are copying apple and doing it even worse, not because apple is somehow good. the fairphone has seven hears of support, and before the smartphone era, you had no issues keeping a phone for a similarly long time.
apple made this model of limited software support, and they do their damn best to enforce it, by revoking the new ios from their devices five years after release on average, and actively pushing developers to only support the latest ios. yes, it’s better than most android manufacturers ensuring your phone gets slow about twice as fast but it’s still anti-consumer.
and again, when my last xiaomi phone did that to me, i bought a fairphone, not another xiaomi. buying again from the same company that screwed you over is lunacy.
I checked Wikipedia. iPhone is still supported and that is 6 years old.
If android manufacturers did actually copy Apple and provided 6+ years of support, we’d be a lot better off.
You can’t win the Apple is bad with software support argument, because it is where Apple is strongest.
Most iPhones only last 5 years from release to when they lose the latest iOS. Currently the record holder is the 6S with its 83 months, which is almost on par with the Fairphone, but it’s important to note that on iPhone if you don’t have the latest iOS you’ll slowly but surely lose apps, while on Android you can be 4-5 versions behind and still be just fine because that’s the development target. And yes, you can use an iPhone that’s no longer compatible with a bunch of apps, but at that point what’s the difference between that and using an old Android phone?
Also, sure, most Android phones indeed do worse than iOS, but that was never my point. My point is that this is a problem Apple manufactured out of thin air when they created the modern smartphone paradigm with the iPhone, and then Android manufacturers copied them and made it even worse. But that doesn’t make the iPhone’s planned obsolescence problem any less anti-consumer, it just means there’s even worse stuff on the market.
If you stop thinking about it as an us vs them between Apple and non-Apple, and start thinking about it as “are those corpos ripping us off” it’s a lot easier to wrap your head around this. Yes, I know the Apple mindset is about supporting the scrappy little underdog that’s fighting the evil Gates, but they’re no longer the scrappy little underdog, they’re literally the largest corporation on the planet. They became the very thing they swore to destroy.
iPhone 8 is 6 years old and still runs the latest iOS version. Apple may have made the smartphone popular and mainstream, they didn’t do what android developers do which is leave modern handsets in the cold.
If we look at the question of is a phone usable like the old days you keep referring to, they work fine for phone calls and sms. If you want to run the latest apps with the latest iOS version 6 years or a bit more seems to be the limit. Which is reasonable.
If we look at security releases Apple is still updating iOS 15 which supports the iPhone 6s released back in 2015.
Many arguments can be made against the Apple approach to software and their walled garden.
I’m saying you can’t make those same complaints against ongoing software support as they are leaders in that.
You’re still ignoring the last part I said:
Your entire point is that Apple is not bad because the general state of Android is worse. I’m calling both bad. And I’m blaming Apple for leading that trend – which also doesn’t absolve most Android manufacturers from following that trend, but Apple still made it.
Also, this whole debate is in the context of a bill that mandates that phone manufacturers make batteries replaceable. The Android side of things actually had that for a long time, while Apple has been doing unibody phones from the beginning and hammered that idea into the whole industry through years of insistence. That’s why I put so much of the blame on them.
You brought up the software support issue and I corrected you as you are wrong. Apple didn’t start anything and lead the industry in ongoing software support.
In my opinion legislating replaceable batteries is anti-consumer as they will be forced into wider devices that aren’t waterproof. I would prefer that they legislated that battery replacement guides be made available by the manufacturer with genuine parts made available at a low profit margin to enable user replacement with the correct tools.
I’m not ignoring anything, I am trying to be factual and provide accurate information about software support periods.
If I’m being idealistic, I’d prefer that all devices support foss and that vendor blobs aren’t required, that is more important than bringing back carrying a spare battery in your bag. Until then we have patchy android software support and Apple’s closed ecosystem as the only major players.
The Samsung Xcover6 is waterproof. The Samsung Galaxy S5 was waterproof nearly ten years ago. Both of these phones have toolless user-replaceable batteries. This excuse is moot and always has been. (On the same note, both of these phones have a headphone jack as well, which is also often brought up as “impossible to waterproof”.)
But the legislation is not even calling for that. There is nothing in the law preventing a company from making a waterproof phone (and I would be strongly against it if there was), and there is actually not even any text preventing the use of screws for battery replacement. It just calls for it to be easy. That’s an engineering challenge, and Apple has many smart engineers who could figure this out – for example, they could go back to the two screws next to the charging port to open up the phone (they’d just have to make them torx or phillips, not pentalobe, since proprietary tools are prohibited by the same legislation) and not glue in the battery. They don’t have to adopt the Fairphone’s or the Xcover6’s style, they have options, the law only mandates the end result, not the method.
But also, your idealized phone exists, it’s called the Fairphone. It’s very likely that it greatly influenced the EU’s decisionmaking on this one by providing an example of what a phone can be like.
As for this:
So you deny that the iPhone ushered in an entirely new paradigm for phones that was wildly different from anything ever before? Because that’s where we lost the mindset of using a phone literally until it breaks, no time limits, just like you can do it today with a laptop, or you could always do on a “dumb phone”. You can’t both credit them for inventing this whole new class of devices but refuse to blame them for the planned obsolescence built into that class of devices from the very beginning.
Xcover 6 is 9.9mm and IP68 dust/water resistant (up to 1.5m for 35 min)
iPhone 14 is 7.8mm and IP68 dust/water resistant (up to 6m for 30 min)
Galaxy S5 is 8.1mm and IP67 dust/water resistant (up to 1m for 30 min)
Fairphone 4 is 10.5mm and IP54, dust and splash resistant
You can see thickness is increased to support replaceable batteries, and the S5 has a lower IP rating with the Fairphone 4 having a terrible rating.
As for the iPhone, the LG Prada was first. If we allow buttons Blackberry and Nokia n95 were doing smartphones well before Apple. My comment about FOSS and no vendor blobs wasn’t that such a product doesn’t exist, it was that legislation to open up the hardware would provide more consumer benefits than thicker phones with lower water ratings. With how popular power banks are I can’t see people carrying replacement batteries around like they did in the 90s - 2000s.
Forcing all manufacturers into right to repair is valid and needs to be done, I think trying to bring back popping the cover off phones to slap a spare battery is has passed and we would be better served with detailed guides from manufactures, and cheaper to access genuine parts including batteries. We should also have protections against warranties being void if a battery is replaced.
The EU will introduce the new law to make it easier to recycle batteries, make smartphones easier to repair and to reduce the amount of e-waste. The vote was approved by European Council and Parliament and will come into effect by 2027. This means that a customer will have to able to remove and replace the battery of the device easily and without tools.
Are we seriously talking about the 2mm difference between the iPhone 14 and the Xcover 6? If that’s what we need to give up then so be it, it’s such an arbitrary metric. The point isn’t to eliminate the need for power banks, it’s about replacing the internal battery when it is inevitably worn out, which is currently the main component that’s enforcing a limited lifetime on the device.
Also, I’m fairly sure the law says no proprietary tools, not no tools whatsoever. But no tools would also be doable, as proven by the Xcover 6, which is realistically on par with the iPhone at the cost of 2mm. I trust that Apple would be able to shave that down too if they actually tried.