They have a right to defend themselves. They wouldn’t have been treated as nicely as they’ve treated Gazans if the roles were switched. Hamas decided to attack people who were so merciful to them when they wouldn’t have shown such mercy.
Of course nothing good will come of this discussion, but let’s try.
Israel was created by western powers and has slowly taken over the land over the past 70 years, forcing Palestinians into smaller and smaller areas until eventually they’re just forced into Gaza. The population density in Gaza is higher than Tokyo, just without anything that would allow for them to live dignified healthy lives.
The conflict is entirely one-sided, considering Israel has the backing of US military. Israel is commiting war crimes daily, such as using white phosphorus bombs on civilians, which burn the targets down to the bone.
They justify this by calling the Palestinians subhuman animals and utilize many of the same fascist tactics that Nazis used against Jewish people. They hide behind the idea that if you criticize them then you must be anti-Semitic, as if Zionism has any place in our world.
Another motivation here is when Israel went to war with Egypt in 2006. Their main goal was to assert dominance in the region so other countries wouldn’t try to mess with them, and they lost horribly. The current situation is just Israel retaking an exam that they failed the first time with an answer key.
Imagine if someone broke into your home 70 years ago and no one stopped them. Over time, they pushed you further into your home while you were just trying to exist peacefully. Now it’s at a point where you, your grandma, your parents, cousins, aunt, and children all live in the closet together and you’re not allowed out to go to the bathroom or use the kitchen or anything. Your cousin takes a swing at the guys who broke into your home, and now people online really think there’s a debate about whether the intruders “have a right to defend themselves.”
There was no war against Egypt in 2006.
I can see nothing positive coming of this war or statement.
Can you see a conversation? Does israel deserve to exist? How should they prosecute this fight?
Does israel deserve to exist?
Israel has now existed for nearly a century. Several generations. Therefore, to say something like that today is a gross denial of reality. It doesn’t help anyone.
Since the 50’s more or less.
You didn’t answer my question, tho.
Honestly? No. Israel does not deserve to exist, in the same way that Australia, Canada, the USA and other colonial countries don’t deserve to exist. The land was taken by the British under false pretences and outright lies (read: terra nullius) and the only colonial country I can think of that has a genuine treaty between the invaders and native populations is New Zealand. Even they have significant issues with managing the relationships between Anglo Kiwis and Māori.
Israel is stolen land, as are Australia, Canada, the USA etc. and all are equally illegitimate with regards to their right to exist as a nation.
You’re at least internally consistent. Hopefully you’re not on stolen land.
I am on stolen land, and I recognise the legitimacy of Aboriginal Australians wanting to pursue a genuine treaty process that can undo some of the serious harm us Anglos have done over the last couple hundred years and instill true self-determination. My ancestors were the ones most involved in the invasion and genocides, and I don’t take that responsibility lightly.
You didn’t answer my question, tho.
I did, even when the answer is something you don’t like to hear.
You know, your statement has honed in on the very heart, the very crux, of this debate. It’s how most people are approaching it, as a “deserve” consideration.
There are, incidentally, other ways of looking at it, asides from some worthy-ness perspective. Could it be possible that nobody is worthy? Or that each historical side has both worthy and unworthy people on it, instead of all being the same?
This is definitely an unpopular opinion on lemmy.
The problem is that so many non Hamas people are dying.
I’m so glad we have this sub to find the people to block quickly.
Winning the war is easy. Winning the peace afterwards is the hard part.
If this was a conventional war between two nations, Gaza would already be in the position of the nation that lost the war. They depend on Israel for electricity and drinking water. Israel can block that off at will. Israel can also send their army inside Gaza, take over all key buildings and expect to lose less than 100 soldiers doing so.
But Hamas keeps fighting anyway, and has enough support from the population to do so.
The powers that are in the middle east have no chance of peaceful cooperation or even peaceful coexistence. Divide it up and make it a protectorate of Japan, Ireland, and Mexico for all I care. They’d certainly run it better and there’s no millennia of history and ghost stories keeping them at each other’s throats like the current rulers.