A 33-year-old Dutch woman has been killed in an explosion in Gaza. Islam al-Ashqar was visiting relatives at the Nusairat refugee camp in central Gaza and was one of 22 Dutch nationals the ministry was trying to help leave. Israel bombed the local evening market in the camp on Saturday night.
What was the whole hospital “debacle?” Like I know the facts, there was a hospital that was hit by some kind of weapon. But the intention, and the who, is not exactly clear. So what are those two very important facts that the media got wrong?
I can’t remember the exact timeline of events, but early on it was reported and assumed to be IDF, while others claimed it wasn’t. Reports got walked back until there were more details, and now it’s generally agreed that it was probably a Hamas rocket that exploded or something.
So I think the press may just be a little more careful with how they portray things when there is only one source or they are reporting on what other news organizations are saying. You know - like they should be doing anyway.
That agreement has been getting walked back by the OSINT sources that initially confirmed it… As expected.
The only reputable international sources with journalists actually on the ground are Al Jazeera, Associated Press, and Reuters. There’s more regional sources like Al Arabiya operating there as well, but they’re not well-known in the West. Everyone else is just commenting on the same secondary sources and made up bullshit that we are online.
To be fair the IDF have bombed many times more hospitals than Hamas ever could.
The problem with the theory about a rocket misfire is the ordinance is too small to destroy a hospital. There’s theories about how it could have maybe set off fuel or oxygen tanks but no confirmation.
The hospital isn’t destroyed and no staff were killed.
A bunch of refugees in the parking lot, a lot less than reported by the health ministry, got killed by being coated in propellant and ignited. Fuel explosions make a big visual effect, but don’t really destroy buildings.
The same health ministry that over reported casualties is also hiding the ordinance remnants that did it instead of showing the world.
Oop, I definitely thought part of the building collapsed. Rereading though there was only “damage to buildings” not actual structural damage (though, again, the explosion was awfully large for a supposed rocket).
So how has Israel managed to confirm the death toll was lower than initially reported? They aren’t on the ground counting bodies.
The European and US intelligence services estimated the death toll at ~50 and 100-300 respectively.
I assume satellite imagery and counting…there’s probably also UAVs from all the great powers recording footage.
Seperately im fairly certain the Israeli security services have spies all over gaza. Somewhat grimly I think the air strikes have had a large component of people on the ground marking areas for strikes after confirming the presence of some Hamas member. It was a strategy exploited during the Russia/Ukraine war and it’s something Israelis can do because they are largely the same ethnicity.
As for the size of the explosion it’s not a great source but you can review pyrotechnic demonstrations of actual military munitions versus like a small special effects explosion and a lot of fuel. The former tends to not actually have a huge fire ploom like the hospital bombing had. There is one it’s just relatively small. If the rocket misfired and had a lot of ignited fuel spraying over the area… It causes that sort of imagery and casualties.
You’re putting a lot of faith in Western intelligence gathering - are you not at all worried that they’d underestimate the death toll to undermine the reporting coming from the Palestinians? Or that they’d cover up a mistake by Israel?
I think it’s a pretty verifiable thing and that both sides have motive to push prop.
One just caught lying about this already. I don’t mean historically I mean this actual incident.
Instead of waiting as long as we have the ordinance should have been shown through spokesmen immediately and at the press conference the ministry held surrounded by bodies.
It takes time to do a convincing fake. So I expect this debate will reignite later.
One possibility I’ve heard is there was a rocket intercepted midair, and then that downed rocket caused a secondary explosion. That’d make everyone look bad, though, so neither side wants to talk about it.
The ground invasion (if it ever happens) will make everyone forget about this anyway though.