Ukraine: has border control with neighboring states, etc
Does seem to imply that Ukrainians have this control. Very clearly, the folks in the Donetsk Oblast do not. But even folks in Western Ukraine have very little control over what now amounts to a military dictatorship in their country. So your original comment somewhat obfuscates the relationship between “Ukraine” and “Ukrainians” in so far as they’re being offered very few options that don’t involve fleeing, mobilizing, or dying.
If one wanted to be superficial, one might make some comparison between the Azov brigade currently supported and financed by the US/EU and Hamas which receives some significant support from Shia-aligned Muslim states and communities. If one wanted to be overly broad, one could argue that the bombings and troop movements along the Ukraine-Russia front line have the same sociological impact as the Israeli incursion into Gaza and parts of the West Bank.
So in a lot of ways they are the same, at least in so far as people living in a war zone are subject to inconceivable horrors.
I’ve seen a few more vitriolic folks suggest that this or that group “deserve” getting bombed because they didn’t oppose the war effort zealously enough. I’m not seeing that in your post, but I can understand how frustration with that type of poster might get displaced.
Either way, I’d say the Ukrainian refugee and the Gaza refugee have a lot more in common than you’re giving credit. If nothing else, they’re both kettled within their home countries by hostile neighbors and told to throw their lives away in this endless blood-feud if they want any kind of access to the thinning supply of resources the residents are allowed.
I can’t say I agree, but maybe I wasn’t clear. Ukraine has a government that is internationally recognized, people got to vote. I don’t have any say in what my government in the US does, but I /do/ have a government and I could vote if I wanted to. Palestinians in Gaza do not. Whether either party deserves what’s happened to the average people involved wasn’t addressed at all in my comment, but to be clear: they do not.
Bad faith interpretations from nine day old accounts who curiously haven’t defined pronouns shouldn’t really be entertained seriously.
Ukraine has a government that is internationally recognized, people got to vote.
A big part of recent Ukrainian politics involved a series of coups and a deliberate effort by Western politicians to disenfranchise Easterners - particularly Russian-speaking Slavs.
I don’t have any say in what my government in the US does, but I /do/ have a government and I could vote if I wanted to. Palestinians in Gaza do not.
The whole problem with politics in Gaza is that the Israelis regularly track, arrest, and assassinate anyone in Gaza that gets near a position of political authority. This isn’t merely a voting problem.
Ukraine has had similar problem, in so far as its leadership was crippled under Euromaidan protests of 2014 and its Parliament plagued by foreign interventions on all fronts. The nation isn’t sovereign in any meaningful sense. It is simply a satrap that’s caught between larger empires. Certainly not as bad as the open air prison of Gaza (at least until the invasion) but still not what I’d call autonomous or democratic in any serious sense.
Bad faith interpretations from nine day old accounts who curiously haven’t defined pronouns shouldn’t really be entertained seriously.
Idk if I’m going to throw a flag on someone for failing to set their pronouns in profile. That seems like a cheap shot.
where did I say the Ukrainians deserve it?
thanks in advance!
Does seem to imply that Ukrainians have this control. Very clearly, the folks in the Donetsk Oblast do not. But even folks in Western Ukraine have very little control over what now amounts to a military dictatorship in their country. So your original comment somewhat obfuscates the relationship between “Ukraine” and “Ukrainians” in so far as they’re being offered very few options that don’t involve fleeing, mobilizing, or dying.
If one wanted to be superficial, one might make some comparison between the Azov brigade currently supported and financed by the US/EU and Hamas which receives some significant support from Shia-aligned Muslim states and communities. If one wanted to be overly broad, one could argue that the bombings and troop movements along the Ukraine-Russia front line have the same sociological impact as the Israeli incursion into Gaza and parts of the West Bank.
So in a lot of ways they are the same, at least in so far as people living in a war zone are subject to inconceivable horrors.
I’ve seen a few more vitriolic folks suggest that this or that group “deserve” getting bombed because they didn’t oppose the war effort zealously enough. I’m not seeing that in your post, but I can understand how frustration with that type of poster might get displaced.
Either way, I’d say the Ukrainian refugee and the Gaza refugee have a lot more in common than you’re giving credit. If nothing else, they’re both kettled within their home countries by hostile neighbors and told to throw their lives away in this endless blood-feud if they want any kind of access to the thinning supply of resources the residents are allowed.
I can’t say I agree, but maybe I wasn’t clear. Ukraine has a government that is internationally recognized, people got to vote. I don’t have any say in what my government in the US does, but I /do/ have a government and I could vote if I wanted to. Palestinians in Gaza do not. Whether either party deserves what’s happened to the average people involved wasn’t addressed at all in my comment, but to be clear: they do not.
Bad faith interpretations from nine day old accounts who curiously haven’t defined pronouns shouldn’t really be entertained seriously.
A big part of recent Ukrainian politics involved a series of coups and a deliberate effort by Western politicians to disenfranchise Easterners - particularly Russian-speaking Slavs.
The whole problem with politics in Gaza is that the Israelis regularly track, arrest, and assassinate anyone in Gaza that gets near a position of political authority. This isn’t merely a voting problem.
Ukraine has had similar problem, in so far as its leadership was crippled under Euromaidan protests of 2014 and its Parliament plagued by foreign interventions on all fronts. The nation isn’t sovereign in any meaningful sense. It is simply a satrap that’s caught between larger empires. Certainly not as bad as the open air prison of Gaza (at least until the invasion) but still not what I’d call autonomous or democratic in any serious sense.
Idk if I’m going to throw a flag on someone for failing to set their pronouns in profile. That seems like a cheap shot.