The first criminal bathroom ban with a jail sentence has just taken effect overnight in Florida. Florida is now dangerous for transgender people to travel through, with arrests likely in coming days.
One one hand, I thing people should be allowed to use whatever facilities best fit their “plumbing”, so a pre-op trans person should use the bathroom matching their cis gender.
On the other, trans people should not be subject to any harassment their external appearance might cause in the bathroom they choose.
On yet another… what’s wrong with “unisex” bathrooms? Just have a single bathroom, everyone uses it… problem solved? Removing “whites vs. colored” bathrooms worked just fine, why shouldn’t removing “guys vs. gals” work too?
I used to think gendered bathrooms were silly, but my Sex & Gender & American Imperialism professor mentioned that getting separate bathrooms was an early feminist issue, which might explain (a small percent of) the TERF backlash, they see it as “men invading women’s spaces” which they fought for. There’s also something to be said for rape culture, our current cultural climate might make it actively dangerous for women, cis or trans, to be in compromised positions in spaces men are sanctioned to appear in. Not that men are dangerous, but that dangerous men exist and are shielded by rape culture.
So I say this with full openness to be told otherwise, but does the origin of the rule matter if it’s no longer relevant. I find it interesting that people would be annoyed with gendered bathrooms but after being told it was a feminist request being ok with it. To me, if gendered bathrooms no longer serve their purpose, let’s nuke em.
My take on this is simple. The only reason I like gendered bathrooms is because I can pee faster at a urinal. lol. Saves me so much time at huge events like concerts and sports arenas.
Most trans people never have any surgeries. I transitioned 16 years ago and I’ve never had any surgeries, nor do I have plans for any.
That being said, it is not comfortable for anyone involved for me to walk into a men’s room. I don’t look like I belong in a men’s room.
I say this with respect, because you seem well-meaning, just lacking some understanding. Here’s a counterexample: if I point-blank asked you to describe your genitals, you’d be uncomfortable, perhaps you’d even feel violated, and rightly so.
This is what bathroom laws are asking trans people to do, and it’s not okay. It’s an invasion of our privacy. I belong in the women’s bathroom, and it has nothing to do with my genitals. My genital situation is nobody’s business.
Moreover, anyone who enters a public restroom with the intent of hurting or violating anyone inside should be punished severely. That also has nothing to do with anyone’s genitals. Single sex spaces, while well-meaning, do not protect anyone. The fact that a person could theoretically “claim to be trans” in order to follow someone into a restroom to attack them is immaterial; such a person could enter that restroom to attack someone even if single-sex spaces were enforced. The assault is the problem, not the sexes of the people involved.
Trans people are not predators; we just have to pee.
I’ll admit that I lack understanding, since I’ve had little contact with this problematic. Personally I feel more agender, but can pass as cis for the purpose of bathroom usage, so haven’t had anyone question me. I also have little sense of taboo, so if anyone actually were to ask me about my genitals… I’d just answer point blank, and probably in more detail than they wanted to know… but you’re right, it’s really nobody’s business. And totally agree on the assault part.
So what’s your opinion on what would be the best solution, having non-gendered bathrooms with all the appliance options?
I’m not who you asked, but I am also a trans person that’s not planning on bottom surgery so thought I might chime in here.
Personally, the best solution is simply: Don’t legislate anything regarding bathroom/gender. Leave the bathrooms as they are. Let people use the bathrooms that they feel fit them best, that they’re most comfortable in. And if someone attempts to sneak in and assault/harass women in the bathroom, that’s already a crime that we have laws for.
Places that want to be more friendly or progressive will generally provide gender-neutral options. To me, the presence of a gender-neutral or all-gender bathroom is a good signifier that the place of business could be considered a potentially “safe” space – the staff there are probably going to be more accepting/less tolerant of open hate or bigotry and I can afford to let my guard down a little bit.
What’s your reasoning for sorting people into bathrooms based on their genitals?
I’m assuming you’re thinking it means someone is “done” with transition. It doesn’t work that way. A good portion of trans people don’t have genital surgery, both due to access issues but also simply not wanting surgery. And, then, depending on where you live, not having surgery may prevent you from updating your gender marker so you don’t have ID, either. (US citizens can change gender markers on passports/passport cards without surgery. Yes, this does mean you have people with different gender markers on different forms of ID.)
Signed, a transmasculine person who was harassed in women’s bathrooms pre-social transition (never mind medical!). (ETA: I mention this because it goes to show this is ultimately about policing women’s genders–I was seen as “woman-ing wrong” while living as a woman. I have also been harassed in a gender neutral bathroom, believe it or not.)
I’m split on this.
One one hand, I thing people should be allowed to use whatever facilities best fit their “plumbing”, so a pre-op trans person should use the bathroom matching their cis gender.
On the other, trans people should not be subject to any harassment their external appearance might cause in the bathroom they choose.
On yet another… what’s wrong with “unisex” bathrooms? Just have a single bathroom, everyone uses it… problem solved? Removing “whites vs. colored” bathrooms worked just fine, why shouldn’t removing “guys vs. gals” work too?
I used to think gendered bathrooms were silly, but my Sex & Gender & American Imperialism professor mentioned that getting separate bathrooms was an early feminist issue, which might explain (a small percent of) the TERF backlash, they see it as “men invading women’s spaces” which they fought for. There’s also something to be said for rape culture, our current cultural climate might make it actively dangerous for women, cis or trans, to be in compromised positions in spaces men are sanctioned to appear in. Not that men are dangerous, but that dangerous men exist and are shielded by rape culture.
So I say this with full openness to be told otherwise, but does the origin of the rule matter if it’s no longer relevant. I find it interesting that people would be annoyed with gendered bathrooms but after being told it was a feminist request being ok with it. To me, if gendered bathrooms no longer serve their purpose, let’s nuke em.
My take on this is simple. The only reason I like gendered bathrooms is because I can pee faster at a urinal. lol. Saves me so much time at huge events like concerts and sports arenas.
Most trans people never have any surgeries. I transitioned 16 years ago and I’ve never had any surgeries, nor do I have plans for any.
That being said, it is not comfortable for anyone involved for me to walk into a men’s room. I don’t look like I belong in a men’s room.
I say this with respect, because you seem well-meaning, just lacking some understanding. Here’s a counterexample: if I point-blank asked you to describe your genitals, you’d be uncomfortable, perhaps you’d even feel violated, and rightly so.
This is what bathroom laws are asking trans people to do, and it’s not okay. It’s an invasion of our privacy. I belong in the women’s bathroom, and it has nothing to do with my genitals. My genital situation is nobody’s business.
Moreover, anyone who enters a public restroom with the intent of hurting or violating anyone inside should be punished severely. That also has nothing to do with anyone’s genitals. Single sex spaces, while well-meaning, do not protect anyone. The fact that a person could theoretically “claim to be trans” in order to follow someone into a restroom to attack them is immaterial; such a person could enter that restroom to attack someone even if single-sex spaces were enforced. The assault is the problem, not the sexes of the people involved.
Trans people are not predators; we just have to pee.
I’ll admit that I lack understanding, since I’ve had little contact with this problematic. Personally I feel more agender, but can pass as cis for the purpose of bathroom usage, so haven’t had anyone question me. I also have little sense of taboo, so if anyone actually were to ask me about my genitals… I’d just answer point blank, and probably in more detail than they wanted to know… but you’re right, it’s really nobody’s business. And totally agree on the assault part.
So what’s your opinion on what would be the best solution, having non-gendered bathrooms with all the appliance options?
I’m not who you asked, but I am also a trans person that’s not planning on bottom surgery so thought I might chime in here.
Personally, the best solution is simply: Don’t legislate anything regarding bathroom/gender. Leave the bathrooms as they are. Let people use the bathrooms that they feel fit them best, that they’re most comfortable in. And if someone attempts to sneak in and assault/harass women in the bathroom, that’s already a crime that we have laws for.
Places that want to be more friendly or progressive will generally provide gender-neutral options. To me, the presence of a gender-neutral or all-gender bathroom is a good signifier that the place of business could be considered a potentially “safe” space – the staff there are probably going to be more accepting/less tolerant of open hate or bigotry and I can afford to let my guard down a little bit.
What’s your reasoning for sorting people into bathrooms based on their genitals?
I’m assuming you’re thinking it means someone is “done” with transition. It doesn’t work that way. A good portion of trans people don’t have genital surgery, both due to access issues but also simply not wanting surgery. And, then, depending on where you live, not having surgery may prevent you from updating your gender marker so you don’t have ID, either. (US citizens can change gender markers on passports/passport cards without surgery. Yes, this does mean you have people with different gender markers on different forms of ID.)
Signed, a transmasculine person who was harassed in women’s bathrooms pre-social transition (never mind medical!). (ETA: I mention this because it goes to show this is ultimately about policing women’s genders–I was seen as “woman-ing wrong” while living as a woman. I have also been harassed in a gender neutral bathroom, believe it or not.)