Can we get a consensus on whether our community should de-federate with servers that host loli? I personally think we should block them, and if that ends up not being the consensus here then I’ll probably sign up on another server. I hope we can all agree to set that boundary though because I like it here and it seems otherwise pretty cool.

  • Supermariofan67@lemmy.fmhy.mlEnglish
    6910·
    2 years ago

    Please do not. Although I don’t personally want to see lolicon stuff, many of the servers willing to host it have communities I want to interact with. For instance, burggit.moe is where the touhou communities went and is otherwise a pretty nice instance aside from loli communities.

    It is content which, while understandably offensive to some, harms nobody. All fictional porn, no matter how deviant it is, is ultimately more ethical than real porn can be.

    It should be up to users to block or hide instances with content they don’t wish to see, and defederation should be reserved for communities that consistently cause interference, not for communities that simply have content which one disagrees with.

    • CookieJarObserver@burggit.moeEnglish
      71·
      2 years ago

      Yeah its a pretty nice experience on burggit other than the one or two loli communitys (that everyone can easily block for themselves)

    • eta_aquarid@kbin.social
      64·
      2 years ago

      why are all of the touhou communites on there

      like, that’s weird; there’s tons of lemmy instances that they could have been on, and kbin has a (very inactive) community as well

      onto the point:

      All fictional porn, no matter how deviant it is, is ultimately more ethical than real porn can be.

      This may be true, but you can’t blame many users for being really turned off by it; like I think it’d be perfectly acceptable if most people don’t want to interact with an instance hosting that.

      If you don’t like that, then you might have to move to another instance tbh

    • Finnagain@lemmy.worldEnglish
      1312·
      2 years ago

      As I’ve pointed out in a few spots on this post: regardless of your moral stance, loli is considered the same as child porn by many government agencies. You may not be “harming” anyone, but you’re harming the people that host and view that content in a criminal sense.

  • AyyLMAO@exploding-heads.comEnglish
    564·
    2 years ago

    Users can block whole communities just like blocking individuals, I hope people will consider doing that before advocating complete defederation if possible.

    Disclosure, sh.itjust.works isn’t my home server but we’re obviously federated.

  • DarkwingDuck@sh.itjust.worksEnglish
    545·
    2 years ago

    No need to defederate. I just went and blocked loli and related communities that popped up. I will never see them again.

    So, my vote is NAY.

    • Pyr_Pressure@lemmy.caEnglish
      5·
      2 years ago

      Federation is still young.

      It may be easy to individually block communities now but what about in a few months/years when there are potentially 10x more communities across 10x more instances?

      How intimidating would it be for a new user to have to go through 100+ communities and block them all individually instead of just blocking 5-10 instances?

      • SirXer6xes@lemmy.worldEnglish
        2·
        2 years ago

        You click the three dots at the bottom-right corner of a post/comment and then click 🚫 to block the community/poster.

      • Barbarian@sh.itjust.worksEnglish
        13·
        2 years ago

        Personally, I’m fine with a NSFW tag, and would hope that NSFW instances respect other instances enough to properly tag stuff.

        Any instance with a gore community? Nah, screw that noise. Add it to the block list.

      • neo (he/him)@lemmy.comfysnug.spaceEnglish
        12·
        2 years ago

        I would block gore communities on a personal level, but there’s no need to do so on a server level unless they’re doing something worth defederating for, like any of the following:

        • posting cp
        • using their server to DoS/DDoS others
        • dox-ing people
        • allowing their users to harass others AND refusing to punish such behavior
        • same as above except for ban evasion

        I’d like to have a force-nsfw option for communities that don’t enforce proper usage of the NSFW tag, but for now I’d have to block them most likely.

            • sexy_peach@feddit.deEnglish
              42·
              2 years ago

              with a content warning or without? Blurring is useful for lewd content imo where you don’t suffer when clicking it, it just hides for the public when reading in train. But I don’t want content just blurred that is literally mentally scarring to the average user.

  • Eddie Hitler@lemmy.worldEnglish
    446·
    2 years ago

    Isn’t that the point of decentralization allowing users to pick and choose what they want to see? If you don’t want to see Loli all you have to do is block the server from your feed. I’m not a fan of Hentaiof any of its subs. But I digress, I’m not on your server so I guess I don’t really have a say. 😁

    • sexy_peach@feddit.deEnglish
      188·
      2 years ago

      No the point of decentralization is not that the user has to do all the moderation work themselves.

  • Velkas@lemmy.cock.socialEnglish
    302·
    2 years ago

    Why not just leave it up to users on user by user basis? Are we already trying to regulate stuff on this platform? Block stuff if you don’t like it, ignore if not. I’m by no means for loli personally, but that’s going to start a snowball of overstepping and pretty soon it’ll be like R where everything is locked, deleted, blocked, or hidden.

    If it’s not illegal, ignore it.

      • lich_hegemon@lemmy.worldEnglish
        61·
        2 years ago

        Disregarding an argument because it contains a fallacy is a fallacy too.

        We’ve seen this happen on Reddit and I’ve seen it happen in multiple subs. The comment might have been alarmist but given past examples it’s not unfounded.

        • amminadabz@sh.itjust.worksEnglish
          2·
          2 years ago

          Tu quoque is a fallacy. Pointing out fallacies isn’t, I checked.

          I cant say that defederating is the right or wrong move, I’m just tired of bad faith argument. There is a balance to be stricken between regulation and libertarianism, the question to be answered is where that balance lies. Disavowing any new regulation as an inevitable descent into complete loss of freedom is ridiculous.

    • Finnagain@lemmy.worldEnglish
      519·
      2 years ago

      Loli is illegal in some countries. It’s illegal in the US, if that’s where OP is located. Any depiction of a minor in a sexual situation, whether drawn or photographed, is considered child pornography.

  • InfiniteVariables@sh.itjust.worksOPEnglish
    4719·
    2 years ago

    To everyone saying just block the communities:

    1. I don’t want to have to block communities. In order to know I need to block a community, I have to see content which I feel is worth blocking. That’s fine for most cases but in this case that is not fine (to me personally).

    2. I don’t necessarily want to associate or interact with people who are fine having a server with loli as their home server. Not to be mean about it but that’s just how I feel flat out.

    I think this is an instance where de-federation is the correct course of action.

    • Lodion 🇦🇺AEnglish
      213·
      2 years ago

      I’d like a feature for user specific defederation of communities as you’ve mentioned. Not sure it is possible though.

    • J_C___@lemmy.placeEnglish
      175·
      2 years ago

      I don’t want to have to block communities. In order to know I need to block a community,

      so you’re puttin the onus on the admins? its the same process with different steps, just block the communities you dont want to see as they pop up. No need to search them out.

      EDIT: spelling

    • Fizz@lemmy.nzEnglish
      51·
      2 years ago

      If you defederate it does that also block me from seeing posts here since my instance has not defederated it?

      Its a pretty strong stance to say I don’t want to interact with anyone who hasn’t defederated X.

    • FierroGamer@vlemmy.netEnglish
      1·
      2 years ago

      I’m just checking out Lemmy for the first time so I’m not up to speed entirely on how everything works, but isn’t the point of the system that you chose where to create or move your account so you can choose a community that already blocks stuff? I personally chose one that had nothing blocked and was blocked by nothing to start and intend to move to somewhere else if I see the need.

      • Oni_eyes@sh.itjust.worksEnglish
        1·
        2 years ago

        Kind of. In an ideal world where all the instances have already been created so we know what communities have what content. The problem is that as more people migrate and create their own instances or communities there will inevitably be new ones that are automatically federated with shit that just goes over a line of decency. As things change over time, so will the instances and which other instances they’re federated with.

  • starrox@sh.itjust.worksEnglish
    25·
    2 years ago

    I dont think defederation is the way to go here. It could be another scenario that could be solve elegantly via a tagging system.

    But I agree that stuff which is in a legal grey area or outright forbidden in many countries should not show per default on All. There already is a NSFW setting that you can activate and deactivate (this btw can solve the issue to 99% for you right now if you’re willing to pass on other NSFW content).

    There could be an additional setting to see things that “might be illegal in your country of residence” or simply NSFL. If you then mark such communities appropriatly it could solve the issue for people that want a) no exposure and b) no legal risk due to being shown such communities. And I count myself among those that dont want anything to do with loli or the likes.

    • Oinks@feddit.deEnglish
      92·
      2 years ago

      Users viewing illegal content is one thing but instance owners hosting it is also an issue.

      I might be wrong about how content mirroring on Lemmy works but I’d imagine instance owners would clearly be liable for “publishing” any illegal content hosted on their instance.

      There’s not really a way out of this using tags. And the moderation log probably needs to be purged from the actually offending content as well. And in the specific case of CP (which can include loli depending on the jurisdiction) having the content in a database might also be illegal.

      So that’s a whole headache…

      • Barbarian@sh.itjust.worksEnglish
        17·
        2 years ago

        No content from other instances are hosted here. When you see an image from a community on another instance, what you’re seeing is an embedded image linked from the other instance.

      • starrox@sh.itjust.worksEnglish
        4·
        2 years ago

        True, the hosting side of it all is one other big thing. I have to leave that to smarter minds than myself :O

  • Cracks_InTheWalls@sh.itjust.worksEnglish
    242·
    2 years ago

    I too would like the ability to block at the instance level as a user. Haven’t come across loli, but @lemmynsfw.com does show up quite a bit when looking at All.

    I have no problem at all with other sh.it.heads wanting to look at/interact with nsfw stuff from that instance, but I’m personally not interested. Given this, defederation seems extreme, but blocking on a community-by-community basis is time consuming and, as others have said, necessitates seeing the content to some degree (pretty sure you can choose whether stuff is blurred or not in your feed via the settings). I’d rather key ‘@lemmynsfw.com’ into a block list once, and go back to what I’m doing.

    • Aurix@lemmy.worldEnglish
      52·
      2 years ago

      No, wrong approach because it blocks users simply interacting. What is needed is a solution for the All feed.

      • Cracks_InTheWalls@sh.itjust.worksEnglish
        91·
        2 years ago

        Perhaps I explained it poorly (or just have some fundamental misunderstanding - both are equally likely), but this is more the ability to personally block posts from all communities hosted on a given instance by defining the block at the instance level, not comments from users from instances I blocked posts on, nor posts that those users make on communities in whitelisted instances. Users should be blocked on an individual basis, for sure. If it gets to the point that too many people here have to do this for users from one specific instance, that’s when defederation should be on the table IMO.

        This way, if it’s able to be done, I block @lemmynsfw.com and

        -I don’t see anything from c/[any]@lemmynsfw.com.
        -I do see a reply from user [x]@lemmynsfw.com on comments/posts I made in communities on other instances.
        -I do see a post from user [x]@lemmynsfw.com on c/[any]@sh.itjust.works

        If this can be done, I’m perfectly happy the leave All the way it is otherwise. But there could be other ways to address this, and I’m super open to hearing better approaches.

        • Pyr_Pressure@lemmy.caEnglish
          3·
          2 years ago

          I agree, right now Lemmy and kbin and others are still growing, so instances right now with a dozen communities may have a hundred in a few months/years and if you don’t want to see nsfw content you would potentially have to individually block hundreds of communities from @lemmtnsfw.com to keep it from your all feed.

          It may be somewhat feasible now but the problem will only get worse going forward when you should be able to choose to “defederate” yourself from communities you know hold no value to you personally instead of relying on your whole instance to defederate itself from those communities when other users may not want to.

          • Disa@burggit.moeEnglish
            7·
            2 years ago

            Just want to chime in here, if you don’t want to see NSFW content you can hide it on your profile. Only reason I’m pointing this out is because this particular comment seems to have the goal of hiding NSFW content from view in general. Something entirely possible in Lemmy profile settings as seen in the attached image.

  • Cunnysseur@burggit.moeEnglish
    19·
    2 years ago

    I am biased in this situation, but I just think leaving it to the individual to block specific communities is better than blocking an entire instance for every user.

    • CookieJarObserver@burggit.moeEnglish
      51·
      2 years ago

      Yeah blocking a whole instance because they allow something like that is definitely way over the top of a reaction.

  • kadu@lemmy.worldEnglish
    19·
    2 years ago

    I’d also like to have the ability to block entire instances. Not sure if the architecture would allow that, but at least the mobile apps should be able to filter out all posts from a specific instance

  • ArtisanalRuntime@sh.itjust.worksEnglish
    193·
    2 years ago

    Yeah, full agree. So far I’ve only had to block a few communities to get the loli to stop popping up on all, but a rogue instance could really start to spam people with pretty horrible stuff. That’s what defederation is for, it seems, but there needs to be some rules in place for when the instance ban-hammer gets called upon.

    It would be very nice if clients like Jerboa allowed users to choose to ban/filter specific instances for themselves without affecting everyone else, though.

  • TiredSpider@sh.itjust.worksEnglish
    259·
    2 years ago

    I’d like that shit gone too. I understand not wanting to close ourselves off too much but I think things like avoiding groups that are ok with shit like loli is a no brainer.