• kityr@lemmy.ml
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    1 year ago

    Ah yes, block entire instances en masse without the hassle of actually making the decision yourself, that would be nice

    • borlax@lemmy.borlax.com
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      1 year ago

      I run my own instance so that i can take a little control over the drivel that scrolls past my eyes. Far right ideologies don’t deserve a platform or an audience.

      • Synthead@lemmy.world
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        1 year ago

        Yeah, free speech simply means that you won’t get arrested for being an asshole. It doesn’t mean you’re entitled to be bigoted on a service someone else is hosting. This could be a single person hosting a pet as a hobby, or a corporation at a large scale. It doesn’t matter as long as it’s a third-party that you don’t own.

        If people want to be jerks on purpose without others getting involved, they can find their own place to share ideas or host a service themselves. And if they don’t like people challenging their ideas, they can block them too, because they have that right on their own stuff.

        Some people believe that hate and discrimination is the new normal and should be condoned by everyone. If it’s a religion thing, perhaps they should reconsider what aspects of “blind” is important in blind faith? Regardless, it’s incredible how people find these unfounded hills to die on.

        Besides, their hate is directed towards what’s fashionable at the time. “Owning slaves” and “owning women” was once something people fought for. Later, when human rights started getting voted into law, their disagreement started to be expressed through bigotry.

        But now that society doesn’t have much room to be racist or sexist, they are migrating to other groups they don’t like. Did they generally decide that they were wrong about their previously-targeted groups? And they’re positive that the new groups are the right groups to hate? Or perhaps some people just have a chip on their shoulder and want to hate using whatever mental gymnastics are necessary to validate themselves?

        Regardless, social media is just a way for people to talk to each other, hosted by a person or a group. In terms of what’s allowed to be said, technology is irrelevant. If someone invites you to dinner for the first time, and you’re blatantly racist, you’ll probably get kicked out. Social media, hosted by others, presents exactly the same set of circumstances, no matter if your voice goes through a webserver and a database first or not.

      • kityr@lemmy.ml
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        1 year ago

        Idk, gonna be a very hot take, but I like my beliefs challenged and believe that everyone deserves a voice

        • hare_ware@pawb.social
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          1 year ago

          I agree with this, but some beliefs are well… utterly stupid and not worth reconsidering. It’s a waste of time really.

          • pingveno@lemmy.ml
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            1 year ago

            It’s the deciding which ones are worthless that gets dangerous, particularly when “worthless” involves prison sentences.

            • epicspongee [they/them or he/him]@midwest.social
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              1 year ago

              It’s the deciding which ones are worthless that gets dangerous

              Not making a decision is in and of itself a decision. Saying ‘Nazis deserve a voice because everyone deserves a voice’ removes the voice of minorities because Nazis murder and oppress minorities. There is a decision that has to be made somewhere. Saying ‘everyone deserves a voice and Nazis deserve a platform!’ is limiting the voice of minorities.

              • pingveno@lemmy.ml
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                1 year ago

                Sure. In authoritarian states, it’s common to outlaw “lies” about the government, where the government essentially gets to define what a lie is. The United States has its history with such laws in the Alien and Sedition Act in the late 18th century. In more modern times, you see things like Russia outlawing “lies” about the Russo-Ukraine War (including calling it a war). And by lies, I mean anything that does not match Russia’s “everything is fine” narrative. There’s also Poland banning discussion of Nazi collaboration by Poles in 2018.

                I definitely separate that from things like deplatforming. Both people and companies should have freedom of association when it comes to political opinions. They should never be forced to support speech that they disagree with.

              • pingveno@lemmy.ml
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                1 year ago

                None of them. Lemmy instances defederating are the epitome of another freedom, freedom of association. People should be able to choose who and who not to associate with without interference from the government.

        • CurlyWurlies4All@slrpnk.net
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          1 year ago

          Fascism isn’t an ideology that gets defeated in the marketplace of ideas. It’s core belief is enabling a small minority to violently destroy other lives. It’s not worth your consideration.

        • MrEUser@lemmy.ninja
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          1 year ago

          The problem is, this isn’t just a challenge to beliefs. This is the internet. The darkest most depraved shit that can exist… does. People forcing children to do things with animals… I’ll stop there…

          The U.S. constitution supports free speech. Even it has limits. You can’t yell fire in a movie theater and not face the consequences of injuries your speech causes.

          • mc1472@lemmy.fmhy.ml
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            1 year ago

            You in fact can yell fire in a theater without being arrested. It depends on the context (and weather or not there where injuries)

            If the play calls for it and an actor says it. Or more simply if the theater is on fire.

            With speech laws it matters more what the context is to the intended audience than what is specifically said.

        • epicspongee [they/them or he/him]@midwest.social
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          1 year ago

          Idk, gonna be a very hot take, but I like my beliefs challenged and believe that everyone deserves a voice

          Nazis had a voice once, and folks listened to them. And we ended up with the Holocaust.

          Might be controversial but I don’t believe that people who want to murder minorities deserve a voice. I feel like that’s a pretty reasonable bar to set lol.

          • tobor@lemmy.world
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            1 year ago

            Might be controversial but I don’t believe that people who want to murder minorities deserve a voice. I feel like that’s a pretty reasonable bar to set lol.

            It’s not controversial at all. The only people making “controversy” out of it are the ones who are mad they can’t spew hate

          • kityr@lemmy.ml
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            1 year ago

            Sure, but did they actually say they want to murder minorities?? I’m yet to see that

          • kityr@lemmy.ml
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            1 year ago

            So you ban the “everyone deserves a voice” types? Because that’s what I said.

              • kityr@lemmy.ml
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                1 year ago

                Tf is to sealion?? And I’d like to see the nazis you seem to be unable to not mention in a comment. What I’ve seen is that instances are defederating from exploding-heads. I’ve gone there, seen some edgier memes, some christianity oriented memes, some better memes(those three not being the same memes obv, the Biden ones are pretty unfunny). I’ve seen some honestly sensible policies - instead of banning people for using le bad words, they encourage people who are sensitive to such stuff to block and move on. You seem to call people fucking Nazis for using language that offends you, right?

                • @kityr I tell you not to sealion and then you fucking do it right before me like the dumbest sociopath who’s ever lived

                  You whine that everyone deserves a voice, “everyone” includes the fascists

                  This isn’t Twitter, this isn’t Reddit, shut your mouth and go tf back to Reddit

                  • kityr@lemmy.ml
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                    1 year ago

                    Would you stop putting labels on people and provide the actual fucking examples that cause you to call people Nazis? Or have you simply taken someone’s word for it? You’re a nazi too btw, why? Because I said so, duh.

        • Mirshe@lemmy.world
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          1 year ago

          The world came together in WWII and decided that Nazis didn’t deserve a place at the table. There’s a difference between “let’s decide whose economic policy is more useful now” and “hey I want everyone to have a nice life and these guys think a large chunk of the world doesn’t deserve to live at all.”

        • fiah@discuss.tchncs.de
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          1 year ago

          I like my beliefs challenged

          you like it when “other people should be treated as people as a bare minimum” is getting challenged? because that’s the belief that your average xeno-/homo-/transphobic asshole challenges. Many beliefs I have ought to be challenged on the regular, but not THAT one

    • epicspongee [they/them or he/him]@midwest.social
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      1 year ago

      Blocking instances actually makes the lives of instance admins a lot easier. It not only reduces a whole chunk of problematic content for you to moderate, but it also encourages Nazis to go to the servers you block instead of yours. Nazis can’t subscribe to the subs they want to on your server, and they get banned if they say Nazi shit, so they just leave and go to a Nazi server instead. It’s like fly paper for Nazis lol.

      As a Mastodon admin with a few thousand users, I rarely see Nazi content that I have to moderate. And that’s because when I started I spent an enormous amount of time sifting through every server we federated with and blocking all of the Nazis and all the pedos and all the TERFs. And because I did that at the start, I only get maybe 10 reports a week, none of them are content that would traumatize me (almost always spam), and I also helped the servers that now use my list to do the same.

      Blocking instances not only makes it easier for me to do my job, it encourages other admins to not tolerate these kinds of behaviors as well. Because if they don’t moderate well, that attracts Nazis, and then we have to limit or ban them because we’re volunteers. So everyone just ends up blocking the shittiest servers and moderates their user base well. It’s a win/win for everyone.

      Nazis are not entitled to access to minorities on my server. TERFs are not entitled to access to trans users on my server. Assholes are not entitled to have access to an audience on my server. There are tons of white supremacists or TERFs or other assholes hosting plenty of other servers where they can go and do that. But I don’t want that on servers I host and my users don’t want that on servers I host. If you truly believe free speech is such a big fucking deal, then you are welcome to leave and join one of those rotting servers as well. See how fun that is for you and how long it takes for you to come crawling back.