Trump calls emergence of DeepSeek a ‘wake-up call’ amid doubts about sustainability of western artificial intelligence boom
    • MagicShel@lemmy.zipEnglish
      24·
      3 days ago

      Cheaper AI isn’t the pop we want. We want companies to stop trying to use AI for every god damn thing it is terrible at. We don’t want cheaper AI that’s just going to be baked into more stuff.

      • LoamImprovement@beehaw.org
        15·
        3 days ago

        I mean, I do want cheaper GenAI in the sense that I want people to see that it’s dollar store crap that’s not worth the electricity to run the servers to make it and give it up like they did the fucking Juicero and every other smart appliance a couple years ago. God forbid I hold my breath and people wise up and understand that these people are all grifters looking to tape a horn to a horse and sell their “unicorn” to FAANG or whatever the equivalent is these days, I can’t be assed to rewrite the new poob acronym.

        • MagicShel@lemmy.zipEnglish
          3·
          2 days ago

          AI isn’t the enemy, though, and we aren’t the ones being grifted—that would be companies who think they can make tons of money replacing people with AI. It’s a reasonable useful tool/fun toy/interesting curiosity in certain circumstances. And for an end user it doesn’t use any more power than a video game. But it’s a tool for craftsmen and folks who understand the limitations, not a replacement for workers. And it sure as hell isn’t a production feature. Anyone looking to make money baking AI into consumer products is an idiot and going to lose their hat.

    • artificialfish@programming.devEnglish
      2·
      3 days ago

      Nah, o1 has been out how long? They are already on o3 in the office.

      It’s completely normal a year later for someone to copy their work and publish it.

      It probably cost them less because they probably just distilled o1 XD. Or might have gotten insider knowledge (but honestly how hard could CoT fine tuning possibly be?)

      • leisesprecher@feddit.org
        16·
        3 days ago

        Deepseek showed that actually putting thought into the architecture achieves much more than just throwing more hardware at the problem.

        This means a) there will be much less demand for hardware, since much more could be run locally on regular consumer devices. And b) the export restrictions don’t really work and instead force China to create actually better models.

        That means, a lot of the investments into the thousands of AI companies are in jeopardy.

        • artificialfish@programming.devEnglish
          1·
          5 hours ago

          I think “just writing better code” is a lot harder than you think. You actually have to do research first you know? Our universities and companies do research too. But I guarantee using R1 techniques on more compute would follow the scaling law too. It’s not either or.

        • bobs_monkey@lemm.ee
          9·
          3 days ago

          Realistically, the CCP is probably throwing a lot of money at developers to get something good going and available, and US companies are whining about how it’s not fair. The fact of the matter is that a solid product is available for much cheaper, and US companies are now screaming foul. Guess what, a superior product made of good code (people) beats out just throwing money at hardware, who’d’ve gone an thunk it.

          • leisesprecher@feddit.org
            12·
            3 days ago

            What I find really fascinating here is that obviously openAI, Meta, etc. seem to be structurally incapable of actually innovating at this point.

            I mean, reducing training costs by literally an order of magnitude just by writing better software is astonishing and shows how complacent the large corporations have gotten.

            • artificialfish@programming.devEnglish
              1·
              2 hours ago

              Meta? The one that released Llama 3.3? The one that actually publishes its work? What are you talking about?

              Why is it so hard to believe that deepseek is just yet another amazing paper in a long line of research done by everyone. Just because it’s Chinese? Everyone will adapt to this amazing innovation and then stagnate and throw compute at it until the next one. That’s how research works.

              Not to mention China has billions of more people to establish a research community…

        • remotelove@lemmy.ca
          14·
          3 days ago

          According to Baidu and most of .ml, absolutely nothing. It was a perfectly normal day of getting emulsified by tanks. There are no unhappy people in China, and they have the CCTV recordings to prove it!

          • DdCno1@beehaw.org
            19·
            3 days ago

            Don’t distract. I knew where exactly in the Chinese capital this square is when I was six years old. Your accusation that I must be some ignorant American who can’t find anything on a world map is wrong on both accounts.

            Once again: What happened there? I want an honest answer from you.

            • zante@slrpnk.netEnglish
              4·
              3 days ago

              Don’t distract ?

              We’re talking about developments in AI tech, and you want to make it about Tiananmen Square .

              • thelucky8@beehaw.orgEnglish
                13·
                3 days ago

                @[email protected]

                We’re talking about developments in AI tech, and you want to make it about Tiananmen Square .

                Please don’t use whataboutism to distract from the core issue here. DeepSeek follows the Chinese government’s rules, meaning it has biases intentionally built-in to spread misinformation and propaganda by the Chinese Communist Party. You may read my comment and the source in in this thread.

                • zante@slrpnk.netEnglish
                  3·
                  3 days ago

                  As you and I recently discovered in another thread, you don’t know whataboutism is, and entire account is dedicated to sinophobic comments .

                  As are your other accounts.

                • RusAD@lemm.ee
                  3·
                  3 days ago

                  Breaking news: AI has the same biases as their creators! More at 11

          • zygo_histo_morpheus@programming.dev
            13·
            2 days ago

            People have scrutinized what chatgpt for example is allowed and not allowed to say by its programmers. I think the difference here is that there is lower hanging fruit to grab because the Chinese state has a different relationship to censorship than a lot of other states.

            I also associate Sinophobia with being prejudiced against Chinese people or Chinese culture, however being critical or skeptical of the Chinese state is actually perfectly reasonable. I’m also very critical of the US state and this isn’t because I’m “americaphobic” or some nonsense.

            • gbuttersnaps@programming.dev
              2·
              2 days ago

              Totally agree. Saying that “any criticism of the Chinese government is sinophobic” is the same as saying that “any criticism of Israel’s government is antisemitic.”

          • GreyEyedGhost@lemmy.ca
            1·
            2 days ago

            Welcome to the internet, you must be new. Keep scrolling through new here and you should see some pretty common jokes about the falliability of AI of various flavors. Criticism of the weighting on training models can be found with just slightly more effort.

  • tangentism@beehaw.org
    9·
    2 days ago

    Last year Dario Amodei, the co-founder of leading AI firm Anthropic, put the current cost of training advanced models at between $100m and $1bn.

    So his estimate is so vague as to be fucking useless.

    How people haven’t seen through this emperors new clothes nonsense & grasped that these are the bullshitting self appointed druids of the neo religion.

    That bubble they keep mentioning is where they’re all getting high off their own farts

    • Midnitte@beehaw.orgEnglish
      2·
      2 days ago

      Tbf, that could also just be describing the variability of models.

      I’d imagine there’s a difference in cost for training Dall-E 3 and GPT-3.5 for example.

  • arsCynic@beehaw.org
    31·
    2 days ago

    ELI5 request on lemmy: "You see, dear grandchildren, your grandfather used to have an apple orchard. The fruits were so sweet and nutritious that every town citizen wanted a taste because they thought it was the only possible orchard in the world. Therefore the citizens gave a lot of money to your grandfather because the citizens thought the orchard would give them more apples in return, more than the worth of the money they gave. Little did they know the world was vastly larger than our ever more arid US wasteland. Suddenly an oriental orchard was discovered which was surprisingly cheaper to plant, maintain, and produced more apples. This meant a significant potential loss of money for the inhabitants of the town called Idiocracy. Therefore, many people asked their money back by selling their imaginary not-yet-grown apples to people who think the orchard will still be worth more in the future.

    This is called investing, or to those who are honest with themselves: participating in a multi-level marketing pyramid scheme. You see, children, it can make a lot of money, but it destroys the soul and our habitat at the same time, which goes unnoticed by all these people with advanced degrees. So think again when you hear someone speak with fancy words and untamed confidence. Many a times their reasoning falls below the threshold of dog poop. But that’s a story for another time. Sweet dreams."