That is the way humans have always been and it is not just the USA. I will be dead before the worst affects hit is the justification many think but few are willing to express. Around the world ground water is being used at rates that are thousands of time faster than replenishment.
When the water runs out, mass starvation will soon begin.
But it’s not everyone, not always. In Europe we started sustainable forest management in the 18th century, so for at least a couple hundred of years people are acting differently. Why?
Yeah but it started after Europe was basically logged to the ground for wood or agriculture.
Or a big drop in animal agriculture and biofuels
That will also happen but it will not stop the hunger.
Food exports will dry up as countries hold their food for their own people (See: India’s ban on rice exports) and the countries that cannot feed their own populations will implode.
The Arab spring started as protests over a jump in food prices.
To think that getting rid of those two things is a silver bullet is naive.
People like to shit on animal agriculture. However, you have to consider that only about 3% of the earth’s entire surface is suitable for agriculture, and even less to grow most of the crops we eat. Animals can be raised on land that’s not suitable for crops. It spreads out where we use our water, which is a good thing. Animal agriculture also gives us a plethora of goods besides just meat, and again, it’s goods from land that otherwise we cannot farm.
As with all things in life, there are better and worse ways to go about it, but animal agriculture isn’t ruining the planet in itself.
Secondly, the problem with biofuels is it should be replaced with nuclear, and getting hungry isn’t going to change that, a lot of people are just going to die from starvation and violence directly caused by starvation.
Animal agriculture is not ruining the planet itself, yes.
But
Animal Agriculture emits nearly 60% of greenhouse gases from food production.
What proportion of total co2 emissions stem from food production?
About 30% of global co2 emissions come from food production.
the last numbers i saw from fao were closer to 20%
About half of production between that and crops? That’s actually not bad. Not bad besides the total, but that’s a good split imo
Let’s stop to think about this. The US is farming water intensive crops in the desert. Iowa and surrounding states, some of the best farmland in the world, grows a shitload of corn to make ethanol to add to ICE engine fuel. The energy return on investment is minimal and ethanol trashes small engines that usually aren’t designed to run on it.
We could stop farming in the desert and use our premier farm land to grow food instead of for making low quality ICE fuel. We should be phasing out ICE engines as much as possible anyway, so we can get a double whammy here.
I’m not disagreeing with that at all.
That’s because there isn’t one.
It is this very thought that prevents reform.
It isn’t thought that prevents reform.
Thinking things can’t reform does prevent reform.
To quote a fictional character, Eleanor Shellstrop, “You’ve gotta try, man”.
If you don’t think you can, you won’t act. If you don’t act, you definitely won’t reform anything.
I think this is a case for pragmatism:
https://www.philosophizethis.org/transcript/episode-154-transcript
Thoughts don’t form in a vacuum. They are the product of the underlying material conditions, produced by the intellectual labor of the army of propagandists that work in the fossil fuel industry, the meat industry, the ethanol industry, etc. You’re putting the cart before the horse.
Thoughts matter, but they are a symptom of deeper structural problems that prevent reform. Combating bad ideas only treats a symptom.
You’re putting the cart before the horse.
I really don’t understand what you mean by this.
So are you giving up?
You’re saying that bad thinking is blocking reform.
I’m saying it is a result of reform being blocked.
I’m saying bad thinking guarantees defeat, and that this isn’t over yet.
Look at the Kansas abortion ballot initiative debacle. I’d wager that the climate deniers and anti abortion people are largely the same group. That election shows that they can be beaten and probably have more people on our side than they do. I.e. we are the proverbial elephant tied up with a string.
Thoughts lead to actions, of which inaction based on defeatist ideas literally encouraged by the fossil fuels industries is included.
This is literally idealism; the theory that political action comes from ideas.
Ideas matter, but they can only reinforce the structural and material base.
I’m about to read the article but commenting first to take a guess somehow nestlé is involved
what humans use PAILS in comparisson to what the animals we eat use. Stop eating animals!
I can understand why you’re getting downvoted. People don’t want to stop eating animals. I know I don’t. But we really should. You’re right, it’s horrible for the planet. I for one am looking forward to the lab grown meat future.
Why even lab grown? I’ve eaten burgers from vegan shops that I prefer to meat ones. They’re meatier and tastier than every other meat based burger in their price range.
Of course not every restaurant is this good yet but I have a feeling it’ll outpace the rate of lab grown meat availability.
Why even lab grown? Because people will not give up meat. Humans want fat and muscle protein without the cruelty and waste.
I’m all for vegan options as well. I love me a well made vegan burger.
People Eat Tasty Animals!
animals mostly eat parts of plants that people can’t or won’t eat, so in that way they help us conserve resources.
Haha what the hell are you talking about, a third of cropland is literally dedicated to growing livestock feed. Livestock also directly contributes 7% of greenhouse gas emissions by shitting alone.
This is directly from the FAO: https://www.fao.org/3/ar591e/ar591e.pdf
a third of cropland is literally dedicated to growing livestock feed
that’s not what your source says. and all of agriculture is about 20% of our emissions, but i’d be fine if it were 100%: we need to eat.
Twenty-six percent of the Planet’s ice-free land is used for livestock grazing and 33 percent of croplands are used for livestock feed production.
Dude, it’s one of the first things written on the first page. Come on now, this is embarassing.
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Jesus Christ, so close, read ten more words. Do you think you can do that buddy?
33 percent of croplands are used for livestock feed production.
but not exclusively for livestock feed production. it’s not “dedicated”.
This is what this user posted and embarrassingly deleted before writing the comment above:
grazing lands aren’t croplands
If you can’t even be bothered to read a full quote that was handed to you, you aren’t discussing in good faith. You can go ahead and fuck off with your hand wavy non-scientific bullshit. Learn to read a source and provide a proper rebuttal with evidence instead of spamming nonsense.
Edit: Oh look I broke the spambot lol
I feel like this is overlooked, that animals eat stuff we can’t/won’t- like grass or discarded food.
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I’m not a vegan, but I respect the hell out of them a lot more than people like you. It isn’t a debate that our level of meat consumption is problematic for the environment, if you deny that and aren’t taking steps to at least try to reduce your meat consumption you are a climate denialist.
I’m not sure if this report mentions it but I remember reading recently that we’ve pumped so much ground water out of the earth, it’s affected the tilt of the fucking planet. Man we are a shithole species.
We are an invasive species for the entire planet…
Extracting groundwatee in the death valley in order to make a golf is the most insane example
We need nuclear power stations all along the coast converting sea water into fresh water.
And a string of nuclear power stations to pump the water where it needs to be…
And small nuclear power generators to power all the maintenance cars and trucks.
Don’t forget the nuclear powered, air conditioned suits! Might as well make them bullet ‘proof’ while we’re at it.
You joke, but we actually do need desalination plants — starting yesterday. Water will be the new oil soon.
Yes, we definitely do. We are already seeing the result of not thinking ahead in the southwest. I’m not really joking about the plants. We need nuclear plants to provide the clean energy to desalinate on the levels we need to sustain agriculture and cities without contributing to global warming.
… or maybe switch to a less water intensive form of agriculture ?
Edit : I mean, how sustaining a wasteful practice with a huge wasteful infrastructure is progress ?
We can and should do both.
Maybe we should, but I’m not sure we can - because one (nuclear + desalination) acts as a disincentive to the other (actually chaning practice).
Also, building a nuclear reactor takes a lot of time (do we have it ?), changing agricultural practices can start right now and scale progressively.
And then we can pour the nuclear waste back into the sea! Just kidding 😂 I’m not anti-nuclear
Hopefully by then Nevada is a barren wasteland uninhabited by nimbys so we can get the Yucca Mountain project started.
Just to be sure this is sarcasm, right ?
American companies and local governments implementing unsustainable projects that will only face consequences once they’re gone?
They would never!
There isn’t much of one
“America”
The earth cannot sustain this many people indefinitely.
That’s not true. The vast majority of water overuse is industrial (including wasteful farm practices) and commercial. Gandhi said it well:
There is enough in this world for every man’s need, but not enough for every man’s greed.
