Cool, none of them care. They’re all gloating. You can judge people all you want, but they won’t do what you want if they have real power over you. You want to make them care? Get power.
In the course of history, what do we know of those who “judged” the people who won? We don’t know much, nor do we care. How about we focus on winning, then it will matter who we judge.
Trump voters won’t care about any of that shit until it impacts them personally. My family is moving from Indiana to Maryland because of this election which is really going to obliterate grandparents’ time around our kids. Sucks for them we refuse to stay in a state that would actively destroy our kids’ education and wellbeing. They can shell out whatever massively inflated airfare it’ll cost them to come visit us in a place we can actually feel safe.
Maryland is wonderful… you’ll love it. I’m working on getting out of the South and back up north to the mid Atlantic
Wait until you’re the grandparent and see how it’s different then, and how would you’d think then
Maybe the grandparents shouldn’t vote to directly harm their own grandchildren, and actively destroy their futures. Just a thought.
Sounds like gramma and grampa voted Trump, so maybe next time they’ll make better choices. It’s too late, of course, but that’s the bed they made.
Yes the warped perscrptive informed from 50 years ago, when you had no choice but to trust the TV and newspapers, not like the world has changed since then.
Meaning that if they are ever held accountable, they will say they never voted for Trump and burn anything that could ever indicate so.
If you voted for Harris I blame you for overlooking a fucking genocide.
After all, trump supporters are “overlooking fascism” to punish the biden admin for the gaslighting over inflation.
Is Trump planning on helping Palestinians? It always seemed a strange argument to me to use against the Democrats since I’m pretty sure the right would have done the exact same in regards to Israel. Please prove me wrong, I’d love to see a silver lining to this situation.
Trump probably has more allegiance to Putin than he does to Netanyahu’s money, which might mean forcing it to compromise on a compromise. But frankly, I’ve always seen US support of Israel as a means to drive out Russian influence in Israel, whose cooperation has increased the last few decades before becoming clouded with the latest conflict. The conflict with Iran and its proxies might stop, but Palestinians are still getting genocided, if anything with more of a focus.
Are biden/Harris planning on helping the Palestinians when they continue to fund and arm israel in the genocide?
They’re the same.
Exactly! So we agree it shouldn’t be an argument for or against any side, right?
Yes yes blame voters. Keep doing that. Great strategy. Do not blame the DNC.
We shouldn’t blame Trump voters for the results of their vote? Why not?
Voters (and people who chose not to vote) are to blame. Fuck off.
So you are to blame for a third party not winning?
See how this does not make any sense
“It’s everyone’s fault but my candidate’s and their party for losing!”
“Its everyone else’s fault but my own that I chose the misogynistic racist.”
It wouldn’t have mattered what the dems did. Trump offered the most concessions to the ultra wealthy. Just like when the Democrats win, thats what decides it.
I voted third party. Go on and cry about it liberal.
You’re not pushing your candidate to the left after being out to brunch for the past four years and overlooking a genocide, you’re being pulled right and you think you’re “protecting democracy” by voting for a candidate that not a single vote went to in a primary, and “preventing fascism” by funding the israelis in their genocide.
Por que no los dos?
They don’t realize that by being angry at their fellow man they them away.
It’s day four of Trump being in office and I’ve already been ghosted by dozens of people for the crime of not voting. Because, you know, immigrants who can’t vote are expected to vote too.
Trump isn’t in office until he’s sworn in mid January.
Also simultaneously LOL and I’m really sorry. Those people are not only stupid but not your friends.
Wait, what, you didn’t vote? GAAHH! Yeah not important at all.
It is so odd and counterproductive to me to take this position. “Vote how I want or Ill hate you because Im a better person than you.” Yeah, that will really bring those votes in by the millions. Instead of acting like a child why not learn about these peoples’ lives and attempt to understand why they voted the way they did? Why did Democrats lose the male vote, the independent vote, half of Latinos, and all 7 swing states? It is ignorant and lazy to call them all the isms, go and actually learn why you lost.
You have a good point that understanding the voter is a good path to figuring out how to fix this in the future.
We still get to judge them for being awful people, because fooled or not, they effectively are
Dig deep enough in any awful begaviour and you can find causes and explanations, but that doesn’t make every behaviour ok
And Harris voters behavior is equally awful, they overlooked a genocide to vote for her to “prevent fascism” and “protect democracy” meanwhile the democrat party doesn’t participate in democracy or we would of had a real primary.
Oh no! I’m shaking in my little boots. Your opinion matters so much, Andrea. For the record though, I’m with you in principal, I just don’t care about your opinion.
Then you should be fair and judge harris in a similar way. For supporting and being a part of genocide.
If you didn’t vote Harris because of genocide then you’re a fucking moron. Trump is just going to cut Bibi a blank cheque to pave Palestine with bodies and then move on to Iran. Good job choosing the greater of two evils!
But go ahead and pat yourself on the back for staying home.
There’ll be a genocide under Trump too
And it will be far far far worse.
All of these “it’s genocide, it cannot get worse” fools are in for a rude awakening. Assuming they actually give a shit.
I absolutely would have judged her in a similar way had she won. But right now, she’s the Vice President, and has zero say (unless its to break a tie in the Senate) on this policy whatsoever.
So why would I judge her for “supporting and being part of a genocide”? See how this works? You elect her first, then you pressure her to do the thing that you know for certain the other guy will never do.
I’m judging the Trump voters, but I’m judging the Harris voters, too. You would think that support of genocide would be a deal-breaker for Democrats, but apparently not.
We just saw what splitting the dems does.
Yup. Morons who didn’t vote for Harris “because genocide” now get to watch Trump cut Bibi a blank cheque. Genocide will accelerate. Good job, morons.
Do you really think Trump cares about Gaza let alone anyone?
Israel buys a couple hundred million of dtj stock and they can do whatever they want, that’s how it works now.
Oh, I wasn’t defending Trump. He’s terrible, too.
You were defending Trump implicitly though.
And you voted for him implicitly when you stayed home.
And before the “wah that’s not how it works” reply: yes it is.
I didn’t stay home. I voted for Jill Stein.
All aboard, everyone! Set sail on the S.S. Righteous Indignation…
America is in a tight spot right now. Claiming moral highground does nothing to help the situation.
If I find out you voted for Trump in 2016, I will judge you but I could forgive you.
If I find out you voted for Trump in 2020, I will judge you and will have a hard time forgiving you.
If I find out you voted for Trump in 2024, you’re dead to me. Friend, family, doesn’t matter.
I wish I could say the same but I can’t bring myself to cut my dad out of my life. Yesterday ended our 2 year streak of talking every day.
He learned years ago not to bring up politics with me because he knows I will destroy all of his arguments and bring receipts. He’s let a comment or two slip at a family gathering but he knows my phone’s coming out of I’m within earshot… No, dad, he was definitely friends with Epstein - here’s a quote saying so from the 90s.
I’ve thought a lot about bringing it up or at the very least what my response would be if he does. I want to tell him that he has 20 years left at best but I have to live in the world he voted for a lot longer. I want to tell him that I think my sister would be right to never speak to him again. I want to tell him that she may be young, but in 15 years my niece is going to rightfully resent him for what he supported.
But what I think I’m going to actually tell him is that he fucked up so bad that I HAVE to assume he truly does not understand the implications of this if I ever want to be able to look him in the eye again.
And every single time Trump does something shitty as president, I will be texting him what it was and why it’s bad whether he likes it or not.
My father and I became estranged about a decade before he passed, for reasons other than but similar to politics. Our world views just did not align and in ways that I could not ultimately forgive. We did not really ever reconcile before his passing and I don’t regret it to this day. I don’t believe in unconditional love and he did not earn mine, imho. I am estranged with most of my extended family for similar reasons. I’m not really willing to compromise certain morals.
This might sound bad but I wish I had a similar level of resolve. I tolerate far too much insanity from people in my family.
I’m cutting them out completely. I can’t stand people who sit back and do nothing or support fascism.
This will be the first year in almost 20 years that I simply don’t visit the family for christmas, with the exception of the pandemic.
From now on, if you’re a trump supporter or you “sat this one out”, I’m not wasting any effort on you, continue sitting this one out.
That’s fine. I have no contact with his entire side of the family except one cousin for that very reason, but my dad isn’t like them. I don’t think he understands that he votes R because his family has always voted R. His vote is really the only thing I dislike about him.
The good fight. Keeping majority voters accountable for the choices they impose on everyone else is as much a part of democracy as anything else, especially with candidates who actually deliver on the promises they make during elections.
God speed. I hope you can be reunited with your family again.
My dad died young. He was only 52. I like to think he wouldn’t have been brainwashed by the qult, but honestly who knows? He was running in circles that are now full of trump clowns. He ran a construction company and was a registered Republican, but gave up on them after W and voted for Obama twice. I wonder how he would have reacted to this shit. I like to think he’d have been logical and stayed on the Dems side, but I always wonder if he’d have gone to the dark side. There’s a real chance I wouldn’t be talking to him right now if he did. I’m glad I never had to deal with it because I was very close to him. I feel for you OP.
I am fortunate that there is no real family divide for me. I do have a few relatives who voted Trump, but I am not close to them.
Given that the rest of the family has cut them out (it was already underway, but this was the last straw), it’s really nothing for me to do so as well.
Your poor father. You sound insufferable.
Is life hard when no one truly loves you? Does it affect your day-to-day life or just when you leave anonymous comments like the one you just made?
Like, is it always in the back of your head that you lack to emotional capacity to form meaningful relationships or do you choose to live in ignorance about it?
I did in 2016. I was younger and angry at the world. That judgment is deserved. By 2020 I realized that I had made a terrible mistake and was sure not to repeat it. It’s good to read that you can at least understand the perspective of how someone could have at that time.
Some people never learn. This would appear to be the case for most Americans.
I think issues are too complicated for uneducated voters to understand when lectured to. People can learn, but many often only in hindsight when they experience something first hand. The educated/uneducated divide sheds light on this so obviously. Which is why it is so frustrating. Not suggesting being educated makes people smarter, but I think people who pursue education are more accepting of lecture. Obviously.
Democrats have to stop and realize this. It’s why there is no debate to be had with many Republicans. They don’t think about issues through rational extrapolation and curiosity. Everything is an emotional response to the now. They are just wired that way.
I talked with my wife about this a few days ago. Education and economic issues have a huge influence on this.
If you have issues with the huge complexity of the world around you (because of functional illiteracy) or cannot spend some time to form your own opinions (because of economical insecurity and long hours, kids make it even harder), you don’t have the capacity to engage with messsages more complex than “immigrants bad” or “Eggs expensive” - stuff that you process emotionally, not intellectually.
I think that’s what made Obama’s campaign so powerful - everything boiled down to the simple one word message “Change”.
What made you change your mind?
This may not be a satisfying answer, but I went through some hard times between 2016 and 2020 and gained more compassion for how close any of us are to destitution. It became really difficult for me to be as selfish after those years because, well, I appreciated that happens to good people and we don’t have a social safety net.
Experience showed me you can make the right choices and still get fucked. I just wish there was a way to teach that lesson that’s a little less uh painful.
That’s something I think about a lot. These people need to be humbled, big time. I don’t wish them all the bad there is in the world, I don’t want them to suffer and die. But I want that fucking selfish arrogance and the entitlement slapped out of them. Experience their fragility.
That’s fair…
I just feel like after a public rapist becomes president, twice, there’s no hope for Americans. It really is hopeless by now.
Perhaps they’ll fragment after he dies? A lot of dictatorships don’t survive the death of the supreme leader
You should already be hopeless considering the current administration is aiding genocide.
Still at it… She lost, dude. Go away.
Yes, we were already hopeless, but we recognized that there was one option (out of the four: Trump, Harris, third party, or abstention) that provided a possible chance of ending the genocide, while the other three were a guarantee of not only the complete elimination of the Palestinian people, but the expansion into a much larger conflict across the Middle East and possibly the world.
I hope that moral superiority makes you feel better when you see the what the difference between the Democrats and Republicans in Gaza (and beyond) will be. Assuming you actually give a shit.
Pardon my ignorance as a non-American, but which out of the four was the option for (possibly) ending the genocide?
They should, yes. (I’m not American.)
child rapist, Kate was 12
The DOJ had four years to prosecute him under Biden and they dragged their heels.
The Southern District of New York had ample reason and opportunity to prosecute him as a mobbed to businessman in the '00s and '10s, but he was friends with the mayor so they didn’t.
The Clintons certainly knew about Epstein in the 90s and could have busted that whole thing up 30 years ago. But the donations were too sweet, so they didn’t.
Trump is a creature of consequences.
But also much like most consequences at scale, those that pay the most of the price are not those who brought the consequences on
agree, no argument, just clarifying.
Think about it this way, if you disqualified politicians who engaged in some kind of sexual assault there would not be many left to govern.
It is accepted and now normalized. If you are rich you can rape and do whatever you want.
The problem for me is I grew up in a country that I thought was beyond that. I was apparently wrong.
there would not be many left to govern
Good. There is not that many positions to fill anyway.
It’s not normal that a criminal record that would make it almost impossible to find an entry-level grocery packer job is completely OK for a politician.
a criminal record that would make it almost impossible to find an entry-level grocery packer job is completely OK for a
politicianfucking president of a huge country
I refuse to think about it that way lol. Quantity does not equal acceptance for me. We have to hold our countries’ representatives to a higher standard than being outright criminals, guilty of many, serious offenses. If there are only a handful of politicians left after such a sift, then so be it.
Thank God I’m not in the USA. But it’s not like this doesn’t fuck over the rest of the world too.
If you are rich you can rape and do whatever you want.
This is why I hate capitalism so much. Extreme power disparity is the heart of tyranny and the extreme disparities in wealth that capitalism creates only leads to extreme disparities in political power.
I fear that the US went past a breaking point and that the US will fully be an oligarchy after Trump is done
Oligarchy if we’re lucky…
if you disqualified politicians who engaged in some kind of sexual assault there would not be many left to govern.
I’ve heard arguments to the effect that politicians who are too clean simply don’t succeed, because people don’t want to give you big campaign checks unless they have Compromat on you.
So you get invited to the Eyes Wide Shut party, your rich friends catalog your debauchery, and this is what keeps you loyal.
I guess it didn’t work on Tim Walz or Bernie Sanders?
Seems pretty easy to avoid.
And Bernie took his goddamn honeymoon in the USSR, I imagine they could have bugged every room he entered if they wanted to.
There would absolutely be men who would qualify, as well as a lot of women. Why do you think everyone is sexually assaulting everyone else? Let’s not allow violent criminals (which rape is both violent and a crime, it is torture via sexual acts) to be in office. At a minimum.
The GOP has normalized this shit, sadly. That’s why.
It’s time for Josh Duggar to run for office
Bring out R Kelly
The two of them together make the dream team
The problem with disqualifying anyone based on any crimes is that it would enable the current ruling party to stick crimes on the opposition to eliminate the competition.
Just in case to clarify, I’m not defending child rapists who most surely did commit the crime in question, just saying it’s a dangerous concept.
The problem with disqualifying anyone based on any crimes is that it would enable the current ruling party to stick crimes on the opposition to eliminate the competition.
As an example, Trump didn’t get elected because he was convicted of 34 felonies.
Oh wait, maybe the possibility of false crime accusations don’t fucking matter when real ones aren’t a hurdle to getting elected.
Lol right? Let’s stop pretending sexual assault or even pedophilia allegations do ANY HARM when the FUCKING PRESIDENT IS ONE. Let’s stop silencing victims’ stories of abuse out of concern for their abuser since it doesn’t matter anyway, it doesn’t hurt the perpetrator clearly, and just helps the victim to let them share. It also helps other victims be informed. I’m so fucking done with that line of speech now.
it would enable the current ruling party to stick crimes on the opposition to eliminate the competition.
Don Siegelman was the last Dem governor of Alabama. Pursued on spurious charges in 2004, which were immediately thrown out by the judge of the case, then again in 2006 by a Bush appointed Judge who was more friendly with Republican prosecutors.
I expect a lot more of this in 2025 once Trump takes office and starts settling scores.
they had every right to be frustrated with how things are, but this will not fix anything and they will find out very quickly. its a shame.
The problem with simply being “frustrated” about current material conditions is that frustration is unproductive. You have to channel it into something. If that “something” is fucking fascism, you’re an evil person without morals. So while I understand how it happens I cannot absolve people of the crime of voting for an open fascist.
The problem with simply being “frustrated” about current material conditions is that frustration is unproductive.
In this case it is not just unproductive, it’s destructive. American voters, especially those who voted for Biden last time chose to stay at home.
Biden administration was stumbling so the voters gave the keys to someone who’s going to cut off both legs.
they will find out very quickly
If they were going to realize it, they would’ve realized it after the first Trump term (and 2020 especially). They’ll continue to eat up lies that blame whatever marginalized group they’re hating that day.
The shame is that they won’t care. These people will just find another scapegoat and punt the ball down the line.
Less people voted Trump in 2024 than in 2020. It is not that Trump won, it is that Biden/Harris lost hard.
Trump: 74 Mio. in 2020, 73 Mio. in 2024
Biden/Harris: 81 Mio. in 2020, 69 Mio. in 2024
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2024_United_States_presidential_election
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2020_United_States_presidential_election
No. It is that Trump won with the support of over 70 million Americans. People are responsible for their choices. jfc
Everyone saying Trumps totals didn’t change, yes, but their composition absolutely did change. But even that is besides the point. Even if they staged exactly the same, that’s still really fucking problematic and its absurd to give these people cover for being shitasses.
Trump didnt gain or loose many voters.
Biden/Harris lost a lot of voters.
So really the change between 2020 and 2024 is not a popularity increase for Trump, but a huge popularity loss for Biden/Harris.
Now the question is, how did Biden/Harris manage to be so unpopular, that 12 million people decided to rather risk Trump winning, than vote for them again?
Answer : Russian propaganda about Harris supporting a genocide, while blatantly dodging the question of trumps desire for Israel to “finish the job”.
People are gonna get exactly what they voted for (or really, failed to vote against) in the next 4 years.
It’s the same group voting trump, nothing changed there, but what did change I wonder…
Yeah, Dems should have been able to put a wet turd on the ticket and beat Trump. The people who voted for Trump are the actual problem.
Doesn’t your first statement imply that the dems flubbed an easy victory? Combined with the fact that Trump didn’t gain many voters? If the election was supposed to be that easy to win, isn’t it the dem campaign strat that is the problem? HEY WHITE WOMEN YOU LIKE LETHAL MILITARY?
I’m saying Dems did better than a wet turd, and a wet turd should have been enough.
Anyone who chose to vote for Trump was the actual problem, whether they voted for him before or not. They chose violence.
Anyone not voting for Harris, really
I’d really like to have 100 randomly chosen Trump voters in a room and interview them to find out how knowledgeable they are about Trump, about his policies, about his first term, about the criminal cases, etc.
My guess is that at least 90% of them are brainwashed. I’m sure there are some that are completely aware of his record and are either single issue voters who are voting only on abortion. Some may be multi-millionaires who are voting just for lower taxes and don’t care about anything else. But, anybody who voted for him because of inflation / the economy has no idea what they’re talking about. Inflation was a worldwide problem and Trump’s policies made / will make it worse. Anybody who voted for him because he’s going to “fix immigration” has no idea what they’re doing because his policies are incoherent and will never work. Anybody who voted for him because of Gaza is an absolute moron because he’s just going to encourage the genocide.
I see these videos on tiktok. You would think it was fun but it’s kinda like talking to a brick. There is no logic.
Trump and his fascists deserve most of the blame, but I fear that liberals won’t learn from this. Realpolitik is bullshit. When you promise to help people but then sell us out to lobbyists and the donor class decade after decade after decade, then people lose all faith in institutions. Facts don’t matter because those facts were used to gaslight time and time again.
The Democrats expended a ton of political capital bailing out the teamsters pensions and they didn’t even earn an endorsement from them.
Arizona had a ton of money and jobs pumped into it with the CHIPS act and it went for Trump.
Delivering on promises and improving people’s material conditions didn’t move the needle at all.
Voters don’t care about policy, they care about the President being a charismatic man who reminds them of their dad.
You’re just pitching a story the NYT and the WaPo run regularly. “I heard it on a podcast, I heard it on FOX News, I heard it at church”. That’s the response you get.
Don’t trust liberals to give you the news. Only trust conservatives. Viola! Now you’ll have a strong Republican dogma.
