People ask why Kamala is so far right on so many issues compared to the Dem voter base…
And rather than say “yeah, I can’t provide a valid reason she keeps going to the right”, we keep getting these posts about how it doesn’t matter?
Imagine if Kamala’s line was just to the right of yours, whatever you care most about, she’s just going to agree with trump on.
And when you go around, asking why you aren’t important enough to be on Kamala’s side of the line, everyone told you to stop being a baby and be happy with what you get, even tho what you want isn’t included in her platform
Like, we don’t gain votes by supporting a genocide.
We don’t gain votes from a border wall and Trump’s other border policies Kamala adopted.
Shit. Just being pro-fracking is going to lose us PA, and trump can’t win the election without PA.
That one fucking issue that not a single person can explain why she holds. That’s all it would take to prevent trump.
But instead of using your time productively to try and get Kamala to change while there’s still time…
You want to shit on the people the party left behind?
Like this doesn’t even seem like trying to bully them into voting anymore, you’re punching down on these people constantly and gleefully…
You’re acting exactly like a fucking trump supporter.
TLDR:
The people trying to pull Kamala left are the ones helping Kamala
You’re trying to do the same thing Hillary supporters tried to do in 2016…
You’re acting exactly like a fucking trump supporter.
Blue MAGA is real, and now that they’ve finally accepted Biden won’t be the candidate, they produce this kind of “support” for Kamala. It’s a shitlib’s shitpost, make no mistake.
Anyway, I think Kamala’s lackluster policy positions can be quite easily explained by the age old Pelosi adage - “lean to the green.” Kamala is a corporate establishment dem through and through - if you’re expecting anything else, prepare to be disappointed.
She’s obviously still a better choice than Trump, but as you point out, she needs to be pressured hard from the left at this juncture in order to still have a chance to win the election. If the donors drag her too far to the right, why would people vote for her, right wing lite, over Trump?
Imagine if Kamala’s line was just to the right of yours, whatever you care most about, she’s just going to agree with trump on.
But that is not how it works. If she is to your right, she will hold a position to the right of your position. That’s all. How do you equate her being to your right to her agreeing with Trump? That assumes that to your right everything is one single position. But that is of course not the case. It’s a continuum, and Kamala is probably closer to you than Trump is.
Surely there are more policies she disagrees with Trump that policies she agrees with him. Shouldn’t that proportion be enough to make progressive voters to vote for her?
So why don’t we try to get Kamala away from that conservative policy? It gets the votes to beat trump and we end up with a president who’s policy aligns more closely with the Dem voter base.
It’s literally a win/win, why spend time yelling at people to vote (when we know that’s not effective) instead of trying to get Kamala to move to the left and get the votes?
When we know that’s effective
If Biden hadn’t been pulled left in 2020, he wouldn’t have beat trump.
I don’t get it. You are a progressive voter. You agree the difference should be enough to make you vote Democrat, yet you don’t. Why?
The rest of your argument rests on the assumption that moving the policies of a presidential candidate is easier than moving individual votes. But how can that be the case? The positions a presidential candidate take are determined by a lot of very powerful, sometimes mutually exclusive interests. The positions a presidential candidate takes are the results of a lot of work and negotiations among these competing interests. Of course it is incredibly hard to change the policies of a candidate.
On the other hand, individual voters like yourself have two choices, and it seems reasonable you would choose the best of the two, or the least bad, if you will. You yourself said that the differences between the two choices you have should be enough to convince the voter to choose the option closer to their ideals.
So it seems to me that convincing individual voters is a much more efficient and likely to be successful strategy than trying to change the policies of Kamala.
I’m talking about how best to reach those potential voters so Kamala doesn’t fuck it up.
My bad then. I thought you were justifying not voting for Kamala. Of course I agree with both tactics being used. I don’t think they are mutually exclusive
That assumes that to your right everything is one single position.
That’s how these people think. Yes-or-no, black-or-white, totally agree or mortal enemies.
There’s either a genocide or there isn’t, no concept of relative scale. There’s either environmentalism or there isn’t. There’s support for immigrants or bigoted xenophobia. No complexity. No shades of gray.
You either agree with me completely about everything, or you are the enemy. It’s why Leftism inevitably eats itself. Completely incapable of compromise.
I see your comments all the time and I just want to say, thank you.
I don’t have the energy or care enough to put forth the effort to try to explain these things to the brick wall that is the standard Liberal viewpoint around here. I’m just glad someone is though.
Sorry but he’s wrong. History shows every time the Dems go left, they lose. The only times the Dems win is when they go center to find voters.
(Ib4 Obama, he saw Gore lose on a progressive ticket. So he learned to stay broad and ran on “hope”. His thanks for the ACA was to lose control of the house of reps for years 3-8 and couldn’t do anything else.)
Take this fracking example of his.
Did the environmentalists show up for Gore? No they did not.
Did the environmentalists show up for Clinton who said she’d have a map room to fight climate change? No they did not.
Were the environmentalists going to show up for Biden after he passed green energy and ev policies? Polls said no they were not going to show up.
Harris saying she’d ban fracking is an instant loss. She and everyone advising her knows this.
You mean they actually had to get up off their arses to support what they preached?
That was too much effort for them man. Easier to bitch about a subject while sitting on the couch and complaining no one is doing anything, and when their preferred candidate loses, they have bragging rights that they are not listened to.
Kamala is so far right on so many issues compared to the Dem voter base
The American voter base, yes including the democrats, is extremely conservative (at least compared to me) on almost every issue. When it comes to global warming, for instance, 1% of them are vegan. Maybe 10% would be on board with disincentivizing car ownership. These people are dumb as shit.
If you’re not willing to interact with reality, you can’t solve any problems, and at this point your refusal to get out of your echo chamber looks like you don’t actually want to solve any problems at all. You just want to hide and play pretend.
Poll after poll for years have shown progressive policy is popular with voters…
The problem is we never run a candidate who wants progressive policy.
But honestly?
The majority of your last comment was just insulting people you do t understand and is indecipherable from a trumpets comment about a Republican criticizing trump…
I’m probably going to just block you if all you want to do is act like a trump supporter, I honestly probably should have instead of typing this.
Wow, for real? Amazing! What percentage of Americans want to end factory farms? What percentage think gas guzzling SUVs should be illegal? What percentage want us to build free housing for the poor, or support a more aggressive version of the wealth tax proposed by Kamala?
I’ll answer that for you: between 3% and 20% across the board. You’re totally goddamned delusional and it’s why we can’t make any progress.
Instead of complaining about politicians who are doing their best you can try converting democrats to your perspective. But that would take effort, right?
That would take contact with reality.
Posting memes on lemmy won’t change Kamala’s positions or strategies, but convincing “both sides” lemmy users how important it is to pick the better of two options could change things. Every time the left-leaning party loses due to lack of turnout (aka punishing them for not being left enough) they move right instead of left. The only way to move the country left is to do whatever you can to get the most left-leaning viable candidate elected. Over time this pushes the whole electorate left.
The only way to move the country left is to do whatever you can to get the most left-leaning viable candidate elected. Over time this pushes the whole electorate left.
The last Dem president before neoliberalism was Jimmy Carter like 50 years ago
Would you say that the current strategy has paid off?
If not, how many more decades before we start thinking the people running the party are at best idiots who shouldn’t be running a lemonade stand?
I agree with you, what we’ve been doing hasn’t worked. Allowing Reagan and Bush and Bush and Trump to get elected hasn’t helped anyone. You could argue Nader got GWB elected but cheating and the Supreme Court were a big part of that too. How different would our current politics be if we had a term or two of Gore instead of Bush? Hard to say. Maybe primary voters wouldn’t have felt like they needed to pick a “safe” neolib over a demsoc in 2016 if they could believe he’d be viable.
Went ahead and linked it, because the people who pulled that shit are still the ones running DNC and Kamala’s campaign. Shits not going to get better as long as people like this run the party.
Thanks for the info! To be honest in my ignorance I kind of assume most people in areas where a large employer is located support that business because their incomes depend on it. As usual there’s nuance to everything though.
This shit is so fucking stupid…
People ask why Kamala is so far right on so many issues compared to the Dem voter base…
And rather than say “yeah, I can’t provide a valid reason she keeps going to the right”, we keep getting these posts about how it doesn’t matter?
Imagine if Kamala’s line was just to the right of yours, whatever you care most about, she’s just going to agree with trump on.
And when you go around, asking why you aren’t important enough to be on Kamala’s side of the line, everyone told you to stop being a baby and be happy with what you get, even tho what you want isn’t included in her platform
Like, we don’t gain votes by supporting a genocide.
We don’t gain votes from a border wall and Trump’s other border policies Kamala adopted.
Shit. Just being pro-fracking is going to lose us PA, and trump can’t win the election without PA.
That one fucking issue that not a single person can explain why she holds. That’s all it would take to prevent trump.
But instead of using your time productively to try and get Kamala to change while there’s still time…
You want to shit on the people the party left behind?
Like this doesn’t even seem like trying to bully them into voting anymore, you’re punching down on these people constantly and gleefully…
You’re acting exactly like a fucking trump supporter.
TLDR:
The people trying to pull Kamala left are the ones helping Kamala
You’re trying to do the same thing Hillary supporters tried to do in 2016…
Do you honestly not remember how that worked out?
Or is this all intentional?
-Lemmy libs
Also Bluesky libs, Reddit libs, threads libs, tiktok libs, podcast libs …
Blue MAGA is real, and now that they’ve finally accepted Biden won’t be the candidate, they produce this kind of “support” for Kamala. It’s a shitlib’s shitpost, make no mistake.
Anyway, I think Kamala’s lackluster policy positions can be quite easily explained by the age old Pelosi adage - “lean to the green.” Kamala is a corporate establishment dem through and through - if you’re expecting anything else, prepare to be disappointed.
She’s obviously still a better choice than Trump, but as you point out, she needs to be pressured hard from the left at this juncture in order to still have a chance to win the election. If the donors drag her too far to the right, why would people vote for her, right wing lite, over Trump?
What part of the manifesto did you agree with to get your .ml badge?
“Blue MAGA” is Russian propaganda.
Sure. That’s why people on the left have been using it for a decade now.
Because, it’s a bad way to describe people like OP.
If liberals were capable of self criticism and learning they wouldn’t be liberals.
Why is it that everything I read from .ml is so stupid
Not everything you can’t understand is stupid. And the more you yell about, the more you draw attention to your significant limitations.
Wow, good one. Been waiting a while to pull that out?
Game, set, and match to Soulg.
It’s in the Powerpoint training they give to new comrades
@[email protected]
But that is not how it works. If she is to your right, she will hold a position to the right of your position. That’s all. How do you equate her being to your right to her agreeing with Trump? That assumes that to your right everything is one single position. But that is of course not the case. It’s a continuum, and Kamala is probably closer to you than Trump is.
The shitty “meme” that your commenting under…
Specifically?
Being pro fracking, for Trump’s border wall…
Pretty much all those policies that she agrees with trump on…
Surely there are more policies she disagrees with Trump that policies she agrees with him. Shouldn’t that proportion be enough to make progressive voters to vote for her?
It should.
But it isn’t.
So why don’t we try to get Kamala away from that conservative policy? It gets the votes to beat trump and we end up with a president who’s policy aligns more closely with the Dem voter base.
It’s literally a win/win, why spend time yelling at people to vote (when we know that’s not effective) instead of trying to get Kamala to move to the left and get the votes?
When we know that’s effective
If Biden hadn’t been pulled left in 2020, he wouldn’t have beat trump.
I don’t get it. You are a progressive voter. You agree the difference should be enough to make you vote Democrat, yet you don’t. Why?
The rest of your argument rests on the assumption that moving the policies of a presidential candidate is easier than moving individual votes. But how can that be the case? The positions a presidential candidate take are determined by a lot of very powerful, sometimes mutually exclusive interests. The positions a presidential candidate takes are the results of a lot of work and negotiations among these competing interests. Of course it is incredibly hard to change the policies of a candidate.
On the other hand, individual voters like yourself have two choices, and it seems reasonable you would choose the best of the two, or the least bad, if you will. You yourself said that the differences between the two choices you have should be enough to convince the voter to choose the option closer to their ideals.
So it seems to me that convincing individual voters is a much more efficient and likely to be successful strategy than trying to change the policies of Kamala.
What?
I’ve voted D for literal decades, exactly one of those times I was voting for someone and not against R.
And the only reason I haven’t already voted D, is Im in the blue part of a red state and they like to play games with mail ins.
I’m talking about how best to reach those potential voters so Kamala doesn’t fuck it up.
So if you want to yell at someone till they vote, it’s not me. I literally can’t vote for Kamala anymore than I already am. Just one vote homie.
I don’t think your approach will actually help, but I’m not going to stop you or discourage you from what you think will help stop Trump.
And I’d appreciate it if you dont try and stop progressices from trying to pull Kamala left to meet voters.
Maybe your way is faster. Maybe my way is.
But I feel like the best bet is both us doing it, and the worst bet is us both stopping to have a slap fight with each other.
Or you could double down on arguing, I’d just block you tho, trump is to dangerous to be wasting time with that.
My bad then. I thought you were justifying not voting for Kamala. Of course I agree with both tactics being used. I don’t think they are mutually exclusive
That’s how these people think. Yes-or-no, black-or-white, totally agree or mortal enemies.
There’s either a genocide or there isn’t, no concept of relative scale. There’s either environmentalism or there isn’t. There’s support for immigrants or bigoted xenophobia. No complexity. No shades of gray.
You either agree with me completely about everything, or you are the enemy. It’s why Leftism inevitably eats itself. Completely incapable of compromise.
Can you stop making each sentence a paragraph?
It makes it impossible to read.
Can’t follow what goes together.
It doesn’t make you profound.
I see your comments all the time and I just want to say, thank you.
I don’t have the energy or care enough to put forth the effort to try to explain these things to the brick wall that is the standard Liberal viewpoint around here. I’m just glad someone is though.
Same.
I’ll just sit out. You can’t reason with extremists.
Username checks out
Sorry but he’s wrong. History shows every time the Dems go left, they lose. The only times the Dems win is when they go center to find voters.
(Ib4 Obama, he saw Gore lose on a progressive ticket. So he learned to stay broad and ran on “hope”. His thanks for the ACA was to lose control of the house of reps for years 3-8 and couldn’t do anything else.)
Take this fracking example of his.
Did the environmentalists show up for Gore? No they did not.
Did the environmentalists show up for Clinton who said she’d have a map room to fight climate change? No they did not.
Were the environmentalists going to show up for Biden after he passed green energy and ev policies? Polls said no they were not going to show up.
Harris saying she’d ban fracking is an instant loss. She and everyone advising her knows this.
You mean they actually had to get up off their arses to support what they preached?
That was too much effort for them man. Easier to bitch about a subject while sitting on the couch and complaining no one is doing anything, and when their preferred candidate loses, they have bragging rights that they are not listened to.
The American voter base, yes including the democrats, is extremely conservative (at least compared to me) on almost every issue. When it comes to global warming, for instance, 1% of them are vegan. Maybe 10% would be on board with disincentivizing car ownership. These people are dumb as shit.
If you’re not willing to interact with reality, you can’t solve any problems, and at this point your refusal to get out of your echo chamber looks like you don’t actually want to solve any problems at all. You just want to hide and play pretend.
No, they’re not.
Poll after poll for years have shown progressive policy is popular with voters…
The problem is we never run a candidate who wants progressive policy.
But honestly?
The majority of your last comment was just insulting people you do t understand and is indecipherable from a trumpets comment about a Republican criticizing trump…
I’m probably going to just block you if all you want to do is act like a trump supporter, I honestly probably should have instead of typing this.
Until they learn that Democrats want to do it lol
Wow, for real? Amazing! What percentage of Americans want to end factory farms? What percentage think gas guzzling SUVs should be illegal? What percentage want us to build free housing for the poor, or support a more aggressive version of the wealth tax proposed by Kamala?
I’ll answer that for you: between 3% and 20% across the board. You’re totally goddamned delusional and it’s why we can’t make any progress.
Instead of complaining about politicians who are doing their best you can try converting democrats to your perspective. But that would take effort, right? That would take contact with reality.
Yep, should’ve just blocked you last time.
So weird how all these accounts who spend so much time trying to divide the Dem party always act so much like trump supporters…
And usually just a month or two old…
deleted by creator
deleted by creator
Posting memes on lemmy won’t change Kamala’s positions or strategies, but convincing “both sides” lemmy users how important it is to pick the better of two options could change things. Every time the left-leaning party loses due to lack of turnout (aka punishing them for not being left enough) they move right instead of left. The only way to move the country left is to do whatever you can to get the most left-leaning viable candidate elected. Over time this pushes the whole electorate left.
The last Dem president before neoliberalism was Jimmy Carter like 50 years ago
Would you say that the current strategy has paid off?
If not, how many more decades before we start thinking the people running the party are at best idiots who shouldn’t be running a lemonade stand?
I agree with you, what we’ve been doing hasn’t worked. Allowing Reagan and Bush and Bush and Trump to get elected hasn’t helped anyone. You could argue Nader got GWB elected but cheating and the Supreme Court were a big part of that too. How different would our current politics be if we had a term or two of Gore instead of Bush? Hard to say. Maybe primary voters wouldn’t have felt like they needed to pick a “safe” neolib over a demsoc in 2016 if they could believe he’d be viable.
You think primary voters had a say in 2016 still?
Clinton’s primary campaign was literally running the DNC during that primary, it’s not some secret and it was 8 years ago…
You really never heard?
I can find a link if you need to, it was very well documented.
Edit:
https://www.politico.com/magazine/story/2017/11/02/clinton-brazile-hacks-2016-215774/
Went ahead and linked it, because the people who pulled that shit are still the ones running DNC and Kamala’s campaign. Shits not going to get better as long as people like this run the party.
I don’t particularly disagree with what you’ve said but can you elaborate on this one?
https://www.wvia.org/news/pennsylvania-news/2024-10-10/pa-voters-split-on-fracking-but-show-widespread-support-for-stronger-regulations
58% of PA voters want it banned, because they’re the ones who are getting fucked over most by fracking.
Even the other 42% want more regulations on it
But the only two candidates for president both think it’s fine, and want to open up more land to it.
If Kamala sided with people over corporations on this issue, it would lock down PA, and also help with the other coal states around them.
The only people who are pro-fracking are fossil fuel executives and the politicians they
bribedonate toThanks for the info! To be honest in my ignorance I kind of assume most people in areas where a large employer is located support that business because their incomes depend on it. As usual there’s nuance to everything though.
clearly the point of the meme is that the Middle East geopolitical situation is too complicated for the simplistic view that many leftist voters have.
Removed by mod
Genocide is extremely complicated, people write PhD theses on it, what are you talking about
Yes, we should let those guys decide if it is a genocide after Israel either kills or displaces all of the Palestinians 🤡
I was simply explaining how the person above misunderstood and misrepresented OP. by no means am I “relying” on it to understand anything.
You’re demand for perfection over progress will damn/kill us all.
It’s not a demand for perfection…
I’m voting for Kamala.
What were talking about is how to get her the most votes so she beats trump…
She does that by appealing to voters who may vote for her.
By going left on issues such as climate change, foreign aid, education, the economy, fossil fuel production…
If she moves left on those issues. She gets more votes.
I do t see how talking about any of this is “demand for perfection” tho
Did you mean to reply to someone else?
“By going left on issues such as climate change, foreign aid, education, the economy, fossil fuel production…”
Oh, sounds you are actually voting for Jill Stein
I’m voting D, but it’s disappointing the Dem platform makes you think of Jill Stein supporters…
Basing my assumption only on your comments.
Look, the Dems campaign is not perfect but compared to R are offering, but wait until your over the winning line before killing your own team.
He would have you killed with for these comments. Do you fucking get it
https://feddit.uk/post/18652620
And thanks to the Supreme Court he’d be immune for it too. Not to mention his promise to END ALL ELECTIONS.