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- cross-posted to:
- [email protected]
Migrants who arrived since 2015 say they feel unwelcome in Germany, where the far-right Alternative for Germany is gaining support.
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short anecdote:
I met a girl from afghanistan recently and it kinda made me understand why it’s so important to accept these people. they’ve really been through a lot and not accepting them would be a bad mistake.
It’s how people say: you’re against migration until you’ve actually met some migrants.
Still, it sours me that we talk so much about migration and migrants and so little about the reasons for migration, which are the horrible wars that the US and allies have fought in afghanistan and nearby countries for long time for practically little to no reason. honestly, it’s the US’s fault, and they should take some responsibility and actually care for these people, even if only financially.
you’re against migration until you’ve actually met some migrants.
Abstract fear is a powerful weapon. Theres a reason, why the AfD is powerful in the regions with a low percentage of migrants.
Yeah but this is kinda like saying “we should accept refugees because they’re nice people”.
Sure some or even most are, but a lot of refugees have been through significant trauma and might not be so pleasant as a result.
How would your view differ if you were talking to a young muslim male with a mild psychosis who believed that only an immoral woman would be in public without covering their face?
IMO “unpleasant people” are no less deserving of refuge, but I’d caution you against holding a view that all refugees are nice well adjusted people.
Isn’t this true of us all?
Do you mean, “there’s a few assholes in any group of people” ?
If so, then yes.
However, what I was trying to delicately imply is that people from traumatic circumstances are more likely to be assholes, simply as a product of their circumstances.
For example, I’m sympathetic to the plight of Palestinians, but I wouldn’t rent a room to a Palestinian.
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at [the] expense of domestic population
Gee. That’s just wrong. The benefit of even just the refugees is far greater than the cost. E.g. the German hospital system pretty much wouldn’t work anymore without thousands of migrant doctors, many of which Syrians.
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regime […] slave labour
I know you’re edgelording but would you mind reverting back to appropriate terms here? You’re speaking about Germany, not about Uyghur labor in China.
This is not a flex you think it is, just an indication of poor leadership
Not meant as a flex at all: Just a part of reality where migrants contribute a lot to German society, while a lot of Germans are put off by people simply speaking a different language or having the wrong skin color, and/or being riled up by racism in media and politics.
While sure immigration is over all good for GDP, it supresses wages of the indigenous slave labour. So for a wage slave thus is inherently a hit to their wallets.
For funsies, consider that Germany didn’t even have a federal minimum wage until 2009 and how that impacted wages, like in real terms. Also consider, that migration does come with an overall expanding economy (i.e. you need more goods, you need new services, etc.) which can easily mean better (economic/social) outcomes for all.
[Addendum:] The quality of leadership is an entirely different topic. But fwiw, the only way to keep capitalism going is an expanding society but women don’t seem to want to have more kids lately. Of course, it would behoove us to question capitalism and the expensive, often societally detrimental systems built since WWII. We won’t get to working on those questions though, if our attentions continue to be focused on racist bullshit.
Right-wing parties not only don’t question capitalism, they also do have own improbable “solutions” to the question of growing the population: Essentially outlawing abortions, forcing LGBTQ people into cishet conformity, and weakening women’s rights (which likely encompasses gradually making rape less illegal).
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I guess I should have clarified that I was asking you to tone down the language as a mod, too. Further questions in private.
Because trade is a thing and protecting the weakest also protects the slightly better of. That is to say, if migrant workers can not be exploited neither can German workers.
And yes that includes helping workers in other countries.
Germany just tries closing its borders with “smart controls” (which basicalle means racial profiling). Every political party except the Left wants to deport “criminal migrants” (“criminal” being a fig leaf here) (and even in the Left there are some who want to deport). German lawmakers are pushing for more and more restrictions, cutting financial support for refugees, leaning on populistic measures, abusing statistics left and right and so on and so forth
This article isn’t about that though. It’s about rising xenophobia, a climate of fear and racism constructed and driven forward by the AfD (the party that’s too far right even for Italy’s post fascists) and how migrants and citizens with migration backgrounds don’t feel safe and welcome anymore.
If you manage to get out of the brainbin, have a look around and tell me that it‘s the poor ripping everyone off.
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I am saying it‘s obviously not the asylum seekers living at the expense of the populace.
shit is bad for the domestic population because of capitalism not because of complying with asylum laws
It isn’t even bad for the domestic population. The domestic population actually needs immigration, because the domestic population is aging and we’re running out of young people (in relation to the older population).
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Manufactured conflicts like Syria and Ukraine
Who manufactured these conflicts?
Yeah, tell us who started the war in Ukraine in 2014 with little green men without badges and shooting down a civilian plane. Go on!
You’re not trying to tell me it’s not a war of russian aggression, are you?
I guess they’re referring to this,
the aircraft had been downed by a Buk surface-to-air missile launched from pro-Russian separatist-controlled territory in Ukraine.
That’s not an answer to my question.
And how are you expecting him to answer for another person?
I don’t. I hoped the person I asked would answer.
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Russia invaded and annexed Donbass and Krim in 2014, then launched a full scale invasion of Ukraine in 2022. Do you want to tell us Russia could not have simply not done this? Do you want to tell us this is anything else than russian aggression?
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Of course the illegal invasion by Russia was aggression, like Iraq and Afghanistan and all wars are aggression. But it was foreseeable and preventable through diplomacy.
You do realize that deplomacy and negotiations were tried before the war, in the beginning of the war and continue ever since, right? It doesn’t work because Putin doesn’t want to actually negotiate. Putin is not interested in a diplomatic resolution. Putin wands to expand his empire and eradicate Ukraine as a people, it’s culture, identity, language, everything. It’s a genocide. Putin is literally Hitler (and as a German, I’m not pulling this comparison lightly).
Ukraine proxy war
Don’t drink paint.
He’s a Tankie who, in the past, had a Castro profile picture. I already tagged him from when he defended Venezuela.
Why did you remove your Castro profile picture?
This is not really the community for doomer sci-fi. And I don’t think it’s particularly healthy to consume it. It just demotivates people who are (or would be) fighting for a better future.
we have failed to stop climate change
So far. But there is no definitive end point. We know the future is going to be rougher than the present but that is all.
This is the horrifying and inevitable future because of neoliberalism
And neoliberalism can’t be beat?
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instead we hide and censor the truth and terrible consequences
Not at all the point. Your wording was that it’s “inevitable” and that is the issue for me.
In the face of all that’s injust in the world, do you have nothing better to do than sow despair?
But the numbers don’t lie: 1.2 billion climate refugees by 2050.
This is a projection. It’s good that we have it but whether it is true can only be known in the future.
We’re still tracking very near the worst case GHG emission pathway.
Again, based on a projection — there’s always a worse case. E.g. if we didn’t widely use solar/wind power, our GHG emissions would be vastly higher still.
There is no way voters will accept another wave of refugees.
This is nonsense. Voters have accepted previous refugees, they may as well accept future refugees. The main thing that’s changed since is that mass media went from supporting humane ideas to supporting more or less openly racist ideas.
(You may want to think about the dehumanizing effect of the term “wave” here btw.)
For many, fascism is the answer.
It’s not everyone’s answer & minds can be changed over time.
The things we would have to do are impossible.
They’re extremely possible. They’re just really improbable given current power structures.
Who exactly has this program “to fight for a better future”?
I am sure you will find an organization that, while not perfect, is working on things you care about.
Instead we’re rearming for war
Pro tip: The Russian government started a war in Europe. The Russian government is claiming the territory of one sovereign nation in Europe and in fact looking for more.
Being able to defend against that means we can continue looking at other societal objectives too — such as fighting climate change.
There’s no climate movement under Putin.
and started a new cold war with bad China.
No, China isn’t “bad”. But like the Russian government, the Chinese government is spreading authoritarianism and making the world dependent on Chinese products.
Talking about peace gets you branded a traitor.
Is that so?
