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The biggest danger to US democracy is not Donald Trump or the Project 2025 christofascists, it’s the crushing ignorance of the US population. The gutting of the public education system means that many if not most Americans don’t understand that, “fascist” isn’t just a name like, “poopie head” that you call someone. It has a definition and clearly defined policies/behaviours that closely align with Trump/Vance/Johnston and their enablers. Communist and Marxist are very clearly defined things. Harris/Walz are pro business which means they are definitely NOT communists or Marxists.
If the US population were better educated and more knowledgable they would dump these Retrumplican clowns and rebuild the Republican party from scratch.
It intentional semantic drift and has been happening for a very long time. They erode harsh terms with hyperbole and make normal positions seem extreme by stereotype and strawman. That’s why I prefer specifying that I’m Mutualist rather than explain how the terms socialist/capitalist have drifted out of dichotomy or how the term anarchist and libertarian have become parodies of themselves.
Modern Libertariansm is ridiculous. Libertarianism is far better aligned with socialism (where the people do the work and the benefit stays with the people) than it is with either communism (where the people do all the work and the benefit goes to the government/plutocrats) or capitalism (where the people do all the work and the benefit goes to the wealthy/oligarchs.) Modern Libertarians are extremist right wing capitalist stooges.
Close y’all are almost as bad as Republicans but not quite. It’s still hella embarrassing to be associated with the democrats though.
Yeah, the larval stage of fascism at least pretends to care about human rights, even if they’re not great about actually doing anything about them.
Communists just think you are a little bit thick and/or educated. Maybe a little bit cute. Like a cod who doesn’t know what words mean.
Republican and Democrat parties are Traitors to the Republic. Give Nancy and McConnel the Gallows.
I have a better idea than the gallows. Give them a minimum wage job that deals with customers.
A small one bedroom apartment thrown is as well, and no access to their money for a few years. just their minimum wage.
As a communist… Yeah
Capitalism (or at least the current form of it) and right-wing parties should be illegalized worldwide.
Imho the proletariat neess more class consciousness in order for this to be feasible.
It isn’t feasible, period, until Socialism is achieved, which requires a smashing of the bourgeois state and a replacement with a democratic worker-government.
But are they calling them communists as in “state communism” or as in “a commune where everything is shared equally”?
That is the question!
Fascists don’t know or care about nuance, meaning, reality, etc.
Trump has pretty specifically called Kamala a Marxist because her dad is a Marxist economist, and Marxism must be genetic I guess
Ok but that’s just one person. What about every other person that he’s called a commie?
Generally, “Commie” means Communist, ie a Marxist, not an Anarchist. The US rarely scare-mongers Anarchism, because there hasn’t been a large Anarchist movement that served as a genuine threat at the world stage to the US.
And it doesn’t make communism sound scary at all, but rather mysterious, alluring, and worth checking out.
Unless you’ve lived in ex-USSR.
And after looking into it, we find that the Soviets never really achieved communism in anything but name. Once again, it was rule by dictatorship, and rations for the people. They just couldn’t give up the idea of a strongman. The people by no means ever owned the means of production in the USSR. But even despite their failings, communism was the best thing to ever happen to Russia. Likewise, Russia was the worst thing that ever happened to communism.
It was not a feudal state. It was roughly similar to post-slavery South in the USA.
Yes, I already wrote they didn’t “achieve communism”. It’s the point of my text that they were promising it in the future in exchange for loyalty to a weird system in the present.Sorry, wrong comment.
and forced the Soviets to waste resources on a strong military.
Oh, so it’s “the capitalist nations”, not the way Soviet system worked, made this so expensive?
But even despite their failings, communism was still the best thing to ever happen to Russia.
Stolypin and Witte are generally considered something much, much better. The closest it came to a normal society with civilization potential.
Unfortunately, Russia was also the worst thing that ever happened to communism.
One could argue Khmer Rouge were that, but IRL communists’ incredible ability to just pretend it didn’t happen makes USSR the most notable example.
Not arguing anything with you stranger. I know what we’re told in the states, but I don’t think things are quite what we’re told they are.
Just want to share this declassified documents straight from cia’s website. The first little blurb says Stalin isn’t really a dictator. Do with that what you will. ✌️
https://www.cia.gov/readingroom/docs/CIA-RDP80-00810A006000360009-0.pdf
Also the USSR was a social state, not communist. Communism is a stateless society by definition. The word socialist is literally one of the s’s in USSR.
People who love arguing socialist states fail love to ignore that the reasons are 95% economic interference and outright military intervention or coups from capitalist countries.
The guy who answered you is actually right.
Outright military interventions and coups are part of the package called the real world.
Anyway, I would replace “capitalist” with “bandit” here. Because “capitalism” is just as square-abstract as “communism”, while IRL just as vulnerable to those.
See, there’s an important thing called “feedback”. If there’s no feedback from you, your life doesn’t matter and you get stomped upon.
60s-70s USSR had very weak feedback mechanisms, but still surprisingly better than today’s Russia. Some things that people just accept today would cause real protests there. Half the ministries would be paralyzed by people saying that following such a policy is against their conscience. I really believe that, yes.
But then, due to its slow collapse and decay, those feedbacks becoming stronger started pushing for change that would deprive the ruling class - KGB and similar or related people, bureaucrats and relatives, anyway, the real structures usually don’t have names, - of power. That’s when that class hijacked the popular movement from the likes of Sakharov or Starovoitova and created modern post-Soviet states.
Which means that it had blind zones with no feedbacks said class used. And the more centralist-bureaucratic and non-transparent a state is, the more blind zones it has.
Anything that takes the power from being distributed between separate people and assembles it into one Moloch, calling it “power of the people”, controlled by hell knows whom, means that those people who actually have principles will get stomped.
As we can see, though, same things happen in countries very far from being “communist” or “socialist”.
So, it doesn’t work?
So i can come deflate your tires every night and tell everybody you’re a loser who doesn’t even know how to fill a tire then?
If you knew how to take care of your car the tires wouldn’t be flat every morning. 🤷♂️
Does democracy not work because Athens lost a war to Sparta?
Fucking commies, taking our tea and throwing it overboard just because they didn’t want to pay taxes. We should send an armada to put them all in jail.
Look, when Britain taxed our tea, we got frisky…Imagine what’ll happen when they try to tax our whiskey!
Both sides are wrong, just that Democrats are center-wrong, while Republicans are far-wrong.
They’re right-wrong. Social democracy is a centrist position, not neoliberalism.
I q
I promise the republican party doesn’t care and just says whatever is most offensive in their eyes.
Bro, they genuinely just don’t know what words mean. Source: My Never Trumper dad who unironically called Trump a communist.
Im not offended as much as I am disappointed in the Democrat party, why aren’t they as cool as the Republican say they are. Whenever Trump calls them “far left communists” I think “damn I wish”, instead they’re boring center right liberals. Also I was promised by Trump that the Democrats would end capitalism, kill capitalists, instiute a worker owned economy, open the borders to immigration, enforce Trans rights, promote actual diversity, and unify the left under the red banner.
Dems are as cool as republicans because they’re the same thing. The dems aren’t going to call republicans fascist because the dems share all the same symptoms. They’re not going to call out the republicans for supporting genocide because they also support genocide. They’re not going to call out republicans on supporting the prison state because dems also support the prison state. The dems aren’t going to criticize the republicans for serving capital because the dems serve capital. Etc.
You gotta realize these politicians are agreeing on much much more than they disagree. It’s what’s not debated that’s most important.
Teenager energy right here, apparently functioning everyday life is boring and some wanna make some french style revolution cause raging hormones and underdeveloped brain. I promise you grow out of it though
Counterpoint, you’re literally a capitalist. Just because the system benefits you doesn’t mean it benefits the working class.
I am and it’s fucking great lemme tell you that. You should try it some time
I am and it’s fucking great lemme tell you that. You should try it some time
Now that is teenager energy.
That is insanely out of touch, oh yeah ill just casually aquire capital because I have millions of dollars lying around. It ain’t like im struggling with low wages and an incredibly high cost of living. Consider talking to people outside of your circle of capitalists and maybe try talking to some working class people.
Idk my cost of living is like low as fuck 1000$ maybe maximum.
No one of you even asked or stated where you live so this whole discussion doesn’t even make sense from the start.
You are just so self centered to assume everyone is American westoid it’s not even funny
It doesn’t matter where you live, be it the US, Europe, or Australia, the cost of living is factually speaking going up in all capitalist countries while wages stagnate. The vast majority of people cannot afford to own capital, basic Capitalist economics state that the working class does not own the means of production. Also why did you just assume im American?
You’re DAFt. Hopefully you’re able to grow out of it.
I am daft punk
I know so I’ll provide some clarity: dumb as fuck twit
Make me some lasagna
41 year old here. Not everyone grows up to be a fascist repub.
Socialist right here.
Coming off as your accusations here
wanna make some french style revolution
And not smart enough to keep your ignorance of history under your hat to boot
great first impression
I’m 37 and want this.
Everyday life is not functioning 👍
I am very sorry for you. Let’s make a total revolution then and upend everything because Cowbee cannot function
It likely doesn’t function for you either, unless you’re a business owner or landlord
I am a landlady yes but that doesn’t change anything
Opinion irrelevant
Capitalist scum.
Wow aren’t you angry
Called it.
I provide service of housing in the capital city near best jobs and nightlife to 10 people. Not many want to bother with it
It’s just an hyperbole about how leftists feel about vaguely centrist policies.
when do you grow out of it? I’m in my mid thirties and the urge to water the tree of freedom has nothing but grown.
Well I guess there are exceptions. I blame trans/lgbt internet bubbles where desperate flock to. If no one loves you except commies you kinda are bound to become one permanently. Almost happened here too
I can tell you from personal experence that Trans/LGBT bubbles as you call it, are incredably liberal and very rarely communist, Second have you considered why they are desperate, or was that enough for you to dismiss them. Third… do you know what Communism is? fourth, do you mean “here too” as you almost became a communist, or where you live almost did fifth, please learn what communism is, and also understand why there are spaces like the LGBT spaces,
I see that the red army dogs have responded to my calls. Good. The more the merrier
First, finaly someone noticed my username so thank you for starting your correct accusation of me being a communist origionaly at my name and not my instence
second, no one told me to orde or brigade, did I post alot to you, yes but that is because as I was reading through this it was your posts that seemed to make me the most upset, or give me the urge to talk to. I have no idea who this Tovarish is, no would I follow them with no reason
last, what do you mean “theoretical communist” this seems like something that you can throw that is desinged to picit in such a way that it becomes unfalsifyable, let alsone your last part makes it so that the only way to falsify your claim is to atleast partialy dox myself. I can tell you I am in both education and trade if that makes you feel any better, beyond that I do not feel it wise to scream it on the internet.
this also answers none of the things I brought up, other than welcoming me, a thing I do want to thank you for you did nothing but accuse me of brigading, having no mind of my own, and not being a real comunist. I fail to see how this is productive
Well it certainly made you to produce some big wall of text that’s a bit too long to indulge reading
This is some of the dumbest shit I’ve read in a while.
You have both such a narrow understanding of political positions as well as, seemingly, a narrow perspective of other people’s lives.
Is it forbidden in English to use commas?
My forgotten friend, the ; is always sad that people forget that they exist.
Too close to the word commi
Commas are somewhat discouraged… or at least discretion with commas is encouraged. We have a rule about commas. “If in doubt, don’t.”
We should only use commas for certain prescribed circumstances or if the comma is necessary for clarity.
That said I will defend the Oxford comma to my last breath.
That being said every comma they did use was also wrong.
Oh good point. When you nest something into commas like that the sentence is supposed to still make sense when you remove the bit between the commas.
The irony being that now people use ellipses to mark a sentence pause, which isn’t really how an ellipsis is meant to be used. They were supposed to be for removing unnecessary but implied language from quotes. Agreed on the oxford comma though.
Yeah I like the … despite knowing it’s really for something like a trailing list. Its use seems regional even within the US. Our business partners in Chicago didn’t like it when we included the dots in emails.
According to Cormac McCarthy? Yes.
I’m more of a practical American socialist than a radical communist (since that’s unlikely to happen here) but it offends me because republicans are just so ignorant. The average Republican essentially has no idea what socialism, communism or fascism actually are, and conservatives have been using this as a scary label for my entire life.
Both parties agree on the standard indoctrination. They only disagree about the purpose/topics of the brainwashing. Neither party wants it to include an honest discussion about socialism, fascism, etc. It’s a self-perpetuating problem where the indoctrinators don’t even understand what this stuff means.
In order not to be confounded with economic socialists, who the right accuses of wanting everything for free at the expense of others, I always inform people that I am a Nathan J. Robinson socialist.
I’m more of a practical American socialist than a radical communist (since that’s unlikely to happen here)
Why do you say this? What’s a “practical American Socialist?”
- practical: I don’t have any delusions that the US will implement leftism more extreme than EU style socialist policies any time soon
- American: I’m from the US
- socialist: I feel the government should be involved more in regulating industries, owning certain categories of services, moderating excess wealth, and ensuring the financial/economic well-being of citizens, as opposed to the conservative style which is basically ‘well, if you’re poor then fuck off’.
- practical: I don’t have any delusions that the US will implement leftism more extreme than EU style socialist policies any time soon
The EU doesn’t have socialist policies, you’re referring to social safety nets.
- socialist: I feel the government should be involved more in regulating industries, owning certain categories of services, moderating excess wealth, and ensuring the financial/economic well-being of citizens, as opposed to the conservative style which is basically ‘well, if you’re poor then fuck off’.
So you’re talking Social Democracy, like the Nordics, not Socialism.
Look, people have been debating the definition of socialism for decades, and you guys are not going to figure out here today on Lemmy World.
its pretty settled actialy, its the worker ownership of the means of production
It’s not a debate so much as a propaganda war where every state is lying.
Not precisely as I mentioned public ownership of some industries and services that are privately owned. Healthcare and drug production would be two good examples.
Those are found in the nordics, that’s still dependent on Capitalism as the basis unless you also want to entirely restructure government.
Defeatist (based on observation of fact)
Defeatist because I’m not pushing for full communism or are you referring to something else?
The thing about defeatism is that sometimes it’s just correct, the war is lost. Socialism as in the workers owning the means of production is a currently impossible concept for America. Social democracy would need a tidal wave of the YOOTHS building a New Deal-type political coalition as the Boomers die off but it’s something you can work towards.
It’s for their own party members, same reason Democrats call Republicans fascists.
Republicans (as a group) are fascists.
Democrats (as a group) are not communists.
Lol are you serious? You gotta step outside the echo chamber every now and then.
Sometimes there are buildings full of people saying the same thing over and over - “FIRE! FIRE!!!”
It usually happens when the building is burning, but that doesn’t mean those people couldn’t have formed a diverse set of opinions on what to discuss in that moment.
What an echo chamber those places are, right?
Lemmy and reddit are closets in one room of one floor of one building, where they kick out anyone who won’t scream “Fire!” along with them. Those are echo chambers. Anyone telling you that half of the country is fascist, is pushing an agenda and using fear to influence you. Or they have been influenced and are simply propagating the propaganda.
