I tend to browse /All and by New on Lemmy. I went to respond on a thread on [email protected] to thank someone for a recipe that looked good, and found out I had been banned.
Odd, considering I hadn’t posted to that sub at any point in the past. I checked the modlog to find that “Mod” had banned a bunch of people citing “Rule 5.”
Their Rule 5 states: Bad-faith carnist rhetoric & anti-veganism are not allowed, as this is not a space to debate the merits of veganism. Anyone is welcome here, however, and so good-faith efforts to ask questions about veganism may be given their own weekly stickied post in the future (see current stickied discussion).
I (and hundreds of others) seemingly broke rule 5 of this community without ever posting there. What is going on?
And my apologies if this isn’t the place for this, but I had no idea where else to post the question.
I don’t understand why most people even care. They would have never know this community existed except for for this post.
B/c this is just the tip of the iceberg, and b/c a stitch in time saves nine and all that jazz. And b/c some find it entertaining to discuss about:-). And b/c it’s not fair, e.g. how would you feel if I told you that because you commented here, you automatically receive a…
Yeah, I don’t care about that community either!:-P
Your equivalency is not great. If you told me I was banned on [email protected] (saw in the trending communities) I wouldn’t even spend the time to find of if it was true.
B/c this is just the tip of the iceberg, What?
b/c a stitch in time saves nine and all that jazz What’s the bigger problem?
Personally, I think it justifies their choices. Not that I would have made the same choices in their shoes. They are just getting shit on left and right by random people that would never take the time to even honestly engage, but just believe they are terrible for personal choices.
Well, remember this is social media - we aren’t here to read, but to talk. This gives something for people to talk about, sharing their opinions and such. Also, if it were even possible to read the comments in time order, you’d see people solving the puzzle as it went - first a question was asked, several people put forth different answers, and it snowballed forward from there.
As for why people care - why do any of us like anything? Books, games, movies, etc., it’s all a variety of entertainment to distract us from our real lives:-P.
Eh. If you look over the mod log for the months before the incident, it makes sense why they just started banning anyone with negative interactions. People were just dropping in to harass them.
Also, some social media spaces are closed for most - i.e. you can only read and not comment unless you’ve been approved…
Fair. I don’t really care either way, but do feel like mods of communities like that have a hard job. I wouldn’t sign up to do it.
I did not do that look, but indeed that sounds bad. And yes, it might be nice to have at least the option to create a closed space.
Part of the issue though was whether the mod was banning people for offering so much as a singular downvote - crucially (imho): in some other community. Downvotes are part of the normal functionality of the Fediverse, but if people thought that they could be banned for such, then they could avoid them, thereby lessening the functionality of the Fediverse.
And all the more so when the decision was not reviewed by human eyes. And again even more so when the mod in question was becoming unhinged, refusing to communicate with their fellow mods. And even more so again, trying to ban even instance admins who literally own the machines upon which the Lemmy code is being run.
So… lots of drama. Just like watching a TV show I guess.
Quick question. How do you know if you been banned?
You do not seem to be banned from anything that I can see: https://discuss.online/modlog?page=1&userId=3001113.
It just means you can’t post. You aren’t directly notified but can check the modlog.
Good to know. Thanks for the quick response
They ban anyone that doesn’t agree with their ideology. Regardless how respectful you are about it.
The bad: simply downvoting a meme gets you banned
The good: You didn’t have to open your apps filter settings to stop seeing the absurd shit they post
Funnily enough, their ban spree is self censoring and will end up creating an echo chamber nobody will see.
I say, tofu and let tofuck it up.
I think they’re trying to damage the vegan brand by being as excluding as possible.
I don’t mind vegans, I really dislike this type of treachery giving any group a bad name.
I would definitely agree with that conclusion, and unfortunately it does work, many people think of the angry vegan stereotype when someone talks about veganism, and that’s because of assholes like her. She would say that it’s because of the meat industry and alt-right think tanks, which is true but they also do feed off the bad examples people like her give and go “see we’re not lying”.
If she wanted to be helpful or benefit that community she wouldn’t intentionally behave in the exact way that people criticize the community for acting, she should shun that behavior and banish people who do it. That’s the only way to bring about positive change.
I’m moderately offended that I haven’t been banned yet. It’s giving “the last one picked for kickball” vibes. I want to speak to the fucking manager of c/vegan immediately!
Honestly this mod appears to be having a mental health crisis and it’d be more productive to try to reach out and have a conversation. I might be naive but if I was involved it’d be my first action.
I’m so tired of hearing about this community. They should change their name to ShittyAntiCarnivoreMemes and move to .ml.
Do you want to build an echo chamber? This is how you build an echo chamber.
(I find this entirely unsurprising. I think they do want to build an echo chamber.)
Yeah.
I left beehaw because they seem determined to build a echo chamber too
A minority literally accused of me of wanting to kill all of them simply because I only half agreed with a post.
And then a admin overlooked that, and accused me of causing a fight in a “safe space” which seems to be just another term for echo chamber
I have friends from that minority 😂
Bro’s unironically saying “I’m not a racist, I have minority friends” and wondering why Beehaw doesn’t want him around.
When you’re not a vegan and argue against veganism online and the vegans don’t want to let you into a vegan space
The last time I spoke about veganism whatsoever was over 7 months ago.
Not to mention that it was specifically in a debate thread dedicated to discussing veganism, nor was I overly negative.
Was this intended to be a strawman of some kind?
So, to be clear, you’re saying that you are not a vegan and argued against veganism, and are upset that you got kicked from a vegan space, but at the same time, saying that you’re not a vegan and argued against veganism and are upset that you got kicked from a vegan space is a “strawman,” somehow.
Are you strawmanning yourself? Wtf are you talking about?
For full clarity of what occurred (and not that my diet is any of your concern, but since you brought it up):
- I am not vegan, but have been greatly reducing my meat intake and have been toying with going vegetarian.
- I was kicked from a vegan Community I have never posted in and was about to do for the first time to thank someone for something I found interesting.
- I do not know why I was kicked from a vegan Community. The reason was cited as a rule that I did not violate. I found hundreds of other bans while looking for why I was banned.
- I did not argue against veganism. 7 months ago, I did argue in favour of plants as plants are awesome. This should be irrelevant to what occurred with these band.
- I did all discussion in a single thread specifically created to discuss veganism in a discussion Community.
- The Strawman comment is you claiming I’m somehow screaming “1984” because of the ban. I am not.
- You are being needlessly combative and creating arguments based on assumption. That is the definition of a strawman.
- My original post here was made out of confusion, not malice.
Is that enough for you to parse what has occurred, or would you care to restate everything poorly and in bad faith once again?
I did not argue against veganism. 7 months ago, I did argue in favour of plants as plants are awesome.
The
lie detectorsearch function determined that was a lie.If you want to be vegan because you don’t like factory farms? That’s not a logical jump to make. There are plenty of smaller suppliers you can procure from that do not have those issues; the smarter jump is to just not use bad providers no matter what the product.
If you want to be vegan because it’s eliminating suffering? Nope. You’re just making substitutions for things you’re comfortable with. Bad logic. Bad argument. You’re also applying your own morals (because this is a moral standpoint) to other people, which is stupid no matter who is doing it. From anti-abortion activists to Muslim extremists, your morals apply to you and only you. Do not try to enforce them on the outside world.
If you want to be vegan because it eliminates death? That’s also a moral argument. In fact, in the short term and per unit of death, being vegan adds MORE deaths, they’re just not a style you choose to recognize. Not to mention that increasing the crop yields to make up for the caloric deficit created by meat vanishing would also potentially kill the planet at this stage of human occupation. Crops that are easy to grow, less destructive to the land so they can grow it again immediately after, low maintenance, and cast-offs from other production are where animal feed comes from. This stuff could not be fed to humans or are excess.
Those certainly look like arguments against veganism to me! What would you call them?
The Strawman comment is you claiming I’m somehow screaming “1984” because of the ban. I am not.
That’s not a “strawman,” it’s a parody.
My original post here was made out of confusion, not malice.
The lie detectorMy ability to read the rest of this thread determined that was a lie.Perhaps you guys could/should elevate this issue to the lemmy.world admin team.
What a great ride. I started this thread thinking Objection was being a dick, but OP bringing up logical fallacies in an internet argument is usually a red flag signalling a nugget head.
Jumping into a vegan space to argue someone isn’t being vegan for the right reasons? While I don’t think it’s permanent-ban worthy it’s annoying as fuck.
I’m not even vegan and that looked like some bullshit to me.
But I didn’t go into a vegan space, nor did I mention logical fallacies.
The thread they brought up was from a memes Community. The person I was posting against at the time was PMing people and telling them to kill themselves.
Oops you’re right. I did not correctly check the sub. I stand by the rest. Arguing logical fallacies against someone’s diet choices is a dick move and is still arguing against veganism.
I can’t verify if they were telling people to kill themselves or what that has to do with their reasons for eating plants. If I made death threats online, which no one should do and is a faux pas, I should still be able to use factory farming as a reason for avoiding meat.
Again, don’t think it’s ban worthy. I’m in the peanut gallery over here just having a good time.
Always check the receipts.
or would you care to restate everything poorly and in bad faith once again
Oh, my poor sweet dear. You weren’t supposed to pick this option.
The post you’re citing was not the 7 month old one I was referencing anywhere. Also, the one you cherry-picked was from a year ago and isn’t anti-vegan either. It’s anti-logically unsound argument (kind of like this one here). I can agree with a stance and disagree with the reason someone does something.
And escalating the issue is in concern about the hundreds of rampant bannings, not the veganism.
Also, if that was what you call a parody, you are pretty terrible at parody.
Do you mean:
If you want to be vegan because you enjoy it? Go for it. That is inarguable.
If you want to be vegan because you feel it’s healthier? Rock on. Go you. You may be right if you carefully monitor your diet. I would argue against it being better than vegetarian however.
Because neither of those is an argument for veganism. Veganism is not a diet, it’s a moral stance. Every case of considering it from the perspective of being a moral stance, as it is, you’re opposed to. So all of your arguments are against veganism, as it actually is.
Of course, the garbage that you pass off as “logic” is just, “It’s wrong to apply your morals to other people,” which is a completely laughable position. You “apply your morals to other people” if you think its acceptable to punish murder. You “apply your morals to other people” if you tell people it’s wrong to apply your morals to other people. But sure, it’s only “logically unsound arguments” that you’re opposed to, which is why you employ them.
You are most certainly purposefully misunderstanding things at this stage.
Yes, I wasn’t arguing FOR veganism and never stated I was. I was arguing against reasons some may give and defending logical ones.
No veganism isn’t a moral stance. It CAN BE a personal moral stance as well as a dietary one, but morality is not required and may not factor into it. It may be for YOU, but perhaps a person’s stomach just handles meat poorly in some fashion and therefore they choose not to partake. Don’t claim that everyone must ascribe to your moral stance. They do not.
And no, punishing murder is not a moral stance, it’s a self-preservationist stance. If you can go out and murder indiscriminately, then you yourself can be murdered just as easily.
I’m sorry you don’t understand logic. Please don’t attempt to explain to me one of my degrees when you clearly don’t have even a loose grasp on the concept. Here’s a free course you can take to better understand logic as opposed to a personal moral stance.
How utterly bizarre and yet entirely predictable based on recent events.
Pretty sure i heard they are banning people based on the downvotes/ upvotes. If you downvote a vegan or upvote a non- vegan then you get banhammered.
That community is a joke though and i refuse to participate (as a vegan).
That’s the most fragile thing I have ever heard of.
Why the fuck is Lemmy making votes visable to moderators? This is RIPE for corruption and abuse. Secret ballot is the only way voting works!
They’re visible to anyone with a lemmy instance, or any activitypub compatible platform. It’s likely that she set one up to monitor the votes on the community and ban anyone she saw down-voting her, and yes that is very much a thing that power-hungry losers do.
Votes are not specifically visible to moderators. Instance admins can see them through the database and everyone can see them through other federated platforms besides Lemmy.
Lemmy is an open, federated platform. You cannot realistically hide who voted, because there is no trusted server that would secretly count up votes and provide a total.
people really need to stop confusing an upvote/downvote to basic democratic voting. There is no ticker above the ballot box letting you know how everyone voted before you, there is no “policy” or “elected position” being voted on. This is more akin to an open conference debate where people are booing or yaying when someone speaks up about a topic. Your privacy on a public forum discussion never existed to begin with, people in a public setting know their anonymity isn’t guaranteed.
Exactly. Better to assume nothing on social media is private, especially federated social media.
Pretty sure votes are public. It’s just that most (all?) the front ends only show the number.
It’s kinda how the fedi spec works. Nothing is private.
I know kbin/mbin showed who voted.Afaik, votes are visible to server admins (because admins hold the keys to the DB) and server admins can proliferate information however they want. With anyone being able to be a server admin, there isn’t much you can do about it.
I love the irony of a vegan community eating themselves
Their own irrationality means their feelings on what is “bad-faith carnist rhetoric” depend entirely on their subjective feelings for the day.
I’m a flexitarian who’s morality can actually be defended logically, unlike with vegans.
But their community, moderate as they see fit, I can’t complain.
