Downvoted for utterly ignoring the real solution, which is to actually fix systemic inequity that drives people to despair in the first place.
They can fuck all the way off with that “behavioral threat assessment” bullshit, which basically amounts to refusing to lift a goddamn finger to help anybody until after they’ve gotten so fucked up that they’ve become a threat.
Isn’t the real solution to gun violence just gun control? Not that I think the other problems shouldn’t be tackled holistically, but in regards to things we know we can do effectively and immediately, changing America’s collective perception of itself seems like a goal rather than a next step.
No, that’s just masking a symptom instead of fixing the problem. Take away guns and suicidal kids seeking to take their abusers out with them will just switch to things like knives and explosives instead. It’s the abuse itself that must be stopped!
professor of public policy and statistics at Carnegie Mellon University
I don’t know, this authority seems pretty reliable to me. Surely more reliable than “[email protected]”.
Appeals to authority are only fallacious in formal rhetoric. Just because an authority said it doesn’t mean it’s always right, but it usually is. And that is enough in contexts outside of formal logical argument, such as this one.
By your reasoning, if a professor of epidemiology says, “the best way to prevent the spread of disease is to wash your hands and stay home when you’re sick,” and I share that statement to convince you to wash your hands, that is equally an appeal to authority. Yet the argument is still correct.
The only fallicious use of appeals to authority is to say “This person is an authority, therefore they are correct.” It is not fallicious to say “This person is an authority, therefore their opinions are likely well-reasoned and based in knowledge and experience that most people don’t have.”
It must be understood that when an argument comes from a reliable authority, while it cannot be said that argument is therefore correct, it can be said that argument is therefore likely to be well-reasoned.
Wow, you’re completely missing my point. I’m not saying that the experts’ claims are incorrect in a narrow sense; I’m saying that they fail to trace the chain of causes all the way to its beginning.
Take these parts, for instance:
Researchers have identified several circumstances shared by people who commit mass violence. They are almost (but not always) men, many of whom have suffered from some form of early childhood trauma or abuse. Most are suicidal.
Among the most important is a history of domestic violence. In 2021, researchers found that a majority of mass shootings were domestic violence-related. “A substantial fraction of mass shootings are not these killings of strangers in public places, but they occur in ongoing domestic disputes,” says Nagin.
I’m not disputing that mass shooters tend to have suffered trauma due to exposure to domestic abuse. What I’m asking is, what strategies are the researchers suggesting to prevent the domestic abuse before it happens? The answer appears to be fuck-all!
Instead, the experts are suggesting we cruelly let the abuse happen, identity the small subset of victims who decide to retaliate, and only then give them any scrap of help.
And that cruelty is what you’re defending with your bullshit fallacies. You should be ashamed of yourself!
That’s because the guy in the article isn’t an expert in domestic violence. He’s not proposing that nothing be done, he’s showing restraint by not talking out of his ass about a subject he’s not an expert in.
But it sure as Hell is within the scope of an article that purports to consult with multiple experts to arrive at solutions to the problem. So where the fuck is the paragraph about what the DV expert had to say? It isn’t there, and that’s what I’ve been complaining about this whole damn time!
Even if that’s true – and I’m not conceding that point – that’s not the argument you’ve been making. Instead, you started off this whole thing by trying to ridicule me for strawman nonsense you made up, and haven’t even apologized yet. I’m really sick and tired of your blatant bad faith.
Downvoted for utterly ignoring the real solution, which is to actually fix systemic inequity that drives people to despair in the first place.
They can fuck all the way off with that “behavioral threat assessment” bullshit, which basically amounts to refusing to lift a goddamn finger to help anybody until after they’ve gotten so fucked up that they’ve become a threat.
Isn’t the real solution to gun violence just gun control? Not that I think the other problems shouldn’t be tackled holistically, but in regards to things we know we can do effectively and immediately, changing America’s collective perception of itself seems like a goal rather than a next step.
No, that’s just masking a symptom instead of fixing the problem. Take away guns and suicidal kids seeking to take their abusers out with them will just switch to things like knives and explosives instead. It’s the abuse itself that must be stopped!
“Fuck the experts, they’re wrong and I’m right”
No, fuck fallacious appeals to authority.
I don’t know, this authority seems pretty reliable to me. Surely more reliable than “[email protected]”.
Appeals to authority are only fallacious in formal rhetoric. Just because an authority said it doesn’t mean it’s always right, but it usually is. And that is enough in contexts outside of formal logical argument, such as this one.
By your reasoning, if a professor of epidemiology says, “the best way to prevent the spread of disease is to wash your hands and stay home when you’re sick,” and I share that statement to convince you to wash your hands, that is equally an appeal to authority. Yet the argument is still correct.
The only fallicious use of appeals to authority is to say “This person is an authority, therefore they are correct.” It is not fallicious to say “This person is an authority, therefore their opinions are likely well-reasoned and based in knowledge and experience that most people don’t have.”
It must be understood that when an argument comes from a reliable authority, while it cannot be said that argument is therefore correct, it can be said that argument is therefore likely to be well-reasoned.
Wow, you’re completely missing my point. I’m not saying that the experts’ claims are incorrect in a narrow sense; I’m saying that they fail to trace the chain of causes all the way to its beginning.
Take these parts, for instance:
I’m not disputing that mass shooters tend to have suffered trauma due to exposure to domestic abuse. What I’m asking is, what strategies are the researchers suggesting to prevent the domestic abuse before it happens? The answer appears to be fuck-all!
Instead, the experts are suggesting we cruelly let the abuse happen, identity the small subset of victims who decide to retaliate, and only then give them any scrap of help.
And that cruelty is what you’re defending with your bullshit fallacies. You should be ashamed of yourself!
Well, that question is easy to answer.
That’s because the guy in the article isn’t an expert in domestic violence. He’s not proposing that nothing be done, he’s showing restraint by not talking out of his ass about a subject he’s not an expert in.
But it sure as Hell is within the scope of an article that purports to consult with multiple experts to arrive at solutions to the problem. So where the fuck is the paragraph about what the DV expert had to say? It isn’t there, and that’s what I’ve been complaining about this whole damn time!
Disagree. Not every article has to cover absolutely everything.
It’s like talking about problems with drug addiction. There are two facets:
You do not need to present a solution to both in order to present a good solution to 1.
Even if that’s true – and I’m not conceding that point – that’s not the argument you’ve been making. Instead, you started off this whole thing by trying to ridicule me for strawman nonsense you made up, and haven’t even apologized yet. I’m really sick and tired of your blatant bad faith.