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- cross-posted to:
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No surprises here. Just like the lockdown on iPhone screen and part replacements, Macbooks suffer from the same Apple’s anti-repair and anti-consumer bullshit. Battery glued, ssd soldered in and can’t even swap parts with other official parts. 6000$ laptop and you don’t even own it.
Build quality vs. The aluminum build materials are not equivalent comparison
I’m a PC person, I do NOT like apple, however about 7 years ago I started traveling for work more and had the option to get a MacBook (at the time way way better battery, screen) than our windows laptops. I was just carrying a thin closed laptop with me around, and others had their laptop, a charge cable, and a mouse to achieve the same level of use.
I fell in love with the thing as a whole. Could go 8h on battery, didn’t need a mouse, didn’t use a mouse or external monitors like I did when “home” with my windows laptop.
I still do not like apple, own/owned many generations of Pixel phones, I build my own windows PCs (last winter the most recent)
But we replaced our old HP 360 which was also aluminum, flip/touch screen (still a nice laptop) with a MacBook Air M1 when they came out because of my experience in both longevity, quality, ease of mobility use (the touchpad).
Still a PC guy but the three (2 from work) MacBooks I’ve had have been pretty amazing.
ThinkPads, until Apple switched to ARM, had more battery life. They continue to be the best battery life laptops as far as x86 machines go. I used to go 9-10 hours on my 48 Wh L470 without a charger, which does not even have the 72 Wh battery or extended hot swap pack that T models have.
I am not dunking on you when I say this, but people have a lot more needs for old and new programs that work in Windows, as opposed to Mac being dictated by Apple, and only having the newest shiny software largely incompatible outside of Apple ecosystem. Your needs are minimal, but most people’s needs are variable and legacy based.
Your analogy, commonly cited, is beyond flawed when you say that people are carrying a multitude of accessories with their Windows laptops. Mac users need dongles since a few years now. A base model MacBook Air starts at $1000, and Windows laptops range from $300-$3000. You cannot compare the average $450 Best Buy Windows laptop to even the cheapest MacBook you can buy, and if you bought a $1000 Windows machine, you would get a lot better one than what Apple gives, unless you value the Apple Experience™ that treats you like a kid and not a power user with extensive needs that allow to work with other people and not just Mac users…
My analogy was not flawed. I was referring to my experience, while at work in / around warehouses while doing large installs between 2015-2017. What I wrote, was my experience. I literally watched people having to carry their charges out with them knowing their laptops were not gonna make a couple hours, much less a full shift. Also had their mice because we’ll, windows touchpads are not a replacement for a mouse.
I’m not saying there were not better windows machines available, I’m saying at work what windows laptops they were using always seemed to struggle with battery life, were “ok” screens at best.
I’ve also still never owned a windows laptop that has a touchpad as good as a MacBook. I’ve also not searched for one. The HP360 I had had a “decent” one but still not as good as my experience with MacBooks.
I still don’t like apple I still build use windows PCs as my primary device and 100% it’s easier to use a windows machine for it’s general compatibility of apps, both old and new.
I still like my MacBook Air, and my work MacBook pro (s) more than any previous work or home LAPTOP I’ve owned.
My work laptop at 4yo still had about 6h battery, and I was not wanting/needing a replacement. Most of my coworkers, including my personal experience were counting the days to get a new laptop once the warranty expired at 3y.
I do know that after I started using a MBP at work the windows laptops did get significantly better battery life and overall didn’t seem to wear out as fast as the old ones, but I had no desire to switch back.
Keep in mind that my use case / experience with laptops is only as a primary device at work. At home all our laptops have been portable devices for general use, taking on a trip etc. So the need (at home) for it to do everything doesn’t exist for US.
No doubt, owning a MacBook in a windows house has its challenges. It was quite a pain getting printing working. Ultimately had.ti spin up a docker print server that supported airprint so I could print to my Multifunction Brother printer. That doesn’t, however change my general opinion of the MacBook hardware and ease of use as a laptop compared to my experience with Windows machines.
Your personal experience/testimony is based on your personal needs, unlike most people that would need a bunch of dongles for any Macbook bought in the last few years.
The analogy is very much flawed since it ignores majority users with different needs than you. Yes it is good for you, and the average Macbook buyer who never pays below $1000 is getting a better experience than the average Windows laptop buyer who pays ~$450. Does this make Macbook better? Not one bit. An equivalent priced Windows laptop will be better than Macbook for more or less everyone.
Touchpad and speakers are Macbook’s strengths. But what about the weaknesses like:
… and so on?
Macbook is only good for people with the most basic surfing machine needs, something even a Chromebook can do. Its just a glorified Chromebook unless you are a Final Cut Pro user. Objectively, this does make Macbook an inferior prospect for any user who want to do anything more serious than surfing the web. Generalisations account for masses’ needs instead of personal testimonies.
Again, my point was initially in response to you associating build quality with the materials chosen. I don’t believe those are related how you represented them.
My two MBPs I used for work, (including a windows 10 vm on parallels) managed to get a lot done over the years well beyond browsing the web.
I was/am not arguing about which OS has more compatibility, programs etc. That’s a completely different topic. Hell, the M1 was very limited with native apps for a long time.
As you conseeded, the touchpad is superior. Since I literally use that 95% of the time I’m on a laptop, that’s a pretty big factor in usability. My HP360 was around $1200 (HP Spectre 13t x360) the MBA was $950.
My HP36 after a few years had to be returned to have it’s motherboard replacement., The one bonus there was they upgraded it from an i5 to an i7 which was nice.
My second work MBP did have the infamous butterfly keys, and eventually one key started having issues last year. Again as NOT an Apple fan, the machine was under an extended warranty and with permission from work I dealt directly with apple to get it fixed. They sent me a box overnight, I returned it on a Monday, had it back the following Thursday with a new keyboard and battery.
Everything has good and bad, I think what apple is going to prevent consumers repairing their own stuff is terrible. I still like / have generally had a more pleasant experience using their laptops over Windows machines.
Completely unrelated, I absolutely hate iPhones though!
I am not sure I conceded on anything. I just love to call a spade a spade, regardless of if the entire world feels otherwise. Its true that Macbooks hold the advantage on touchpad, but Windows has superior software ways to utilise touchpad. Macbooks also tend to have better speakers but the gap is not that huge versus others, and even the screen on others can be better at sRGB coverage and with the option of anti-glare film.
Personally, I have never used touchpad at all, since I find myself married to the ThinkPad’s TrackPoint, the supreme method of laptop mouse navigation. I find the touchpad incredibly unnatural to use, and the nipple mouse with fingers and thumb falling on the left/middle/right clicks below, with hands never moving off keyboard, is what works for me.
Everything can have good and bad, however it is true that dealbreakers are a personal thing, which decides what you ultimately get and use. For you its Macbooks, until you encounter something absolutely bizarre that breaks your workflow and peace of mind (also wallet).
Do not mind the rants too much, I am not a “reddit” type of mod who operates from the shadows and silently loves abusing power. I just love having icebreaker exchanges.
I’m definitely not trying to sell MacBooks or convince others of that.
I just like them better then windows for general day to day use especially if you have a windows machine as a backup :)
I loved the touchpad so much I only ever used that on my work laptops at the office or traveling. I also stopped using secondary monitors in lou of the extended desktops with the ease of swiping to a second, third or whatever all with a easy flick in the touchpad it became unnecessary to have an external monitor for 99% of the time (for me)
I’m also a long time Linux user so being able to drop into a native shell is pretty nice
Unless you need a workflow for tasks like video editing with long timeline, virtual desktop workspaces is something that once you learn, there is no going back. I love GNOME for that, as its UI is somewhere between Windows and Mac, with a unique twist of its own.
Its funny, how a lot of Mac users always have a Windows machine by the side. For me as a Debian user, Windows on a side SSD is necessary. We will never escape Windows, it seems… (눈_눈)
I’d never call myself a Mac guy though :) I just like MacBooks haha.
I have tried running various desktop Linux versions over the years, just never stuck with this.
I ran Debian on my own server, then VPS for years. I currently run Rocky Linux on it.
But windows definitely has a strangle hold on the market.