I saw that happen once in a big presentation.
There was a team of students presenting their work to ~200 people. Right in the middle, a pop-up says updates are finished and the computer needs to restart. It has a helpful 60-second countdown, but “cancel” is grayed out, so all they can do is watch.
I was only in the audience and I still have nightmares.
Then it proceeds to take 10 minutes to boot. Happened to me before an important meeting once and i just couldn’t believe it. wtf makes Microsoft think they can get away with shit like this?
Probably that they very obviously are!
Just blame the users. Easy.
They think they can get away with it because they keep getting away with it.
wtf makes Microsoft think they can get away with shit like this?
I’d wager a guess it’s people dumb enough to constantly put up with shit like this?
Combined with myopic developers who always have the newest hardware and fastest connection.
yeah, that’s another epic IT fail of humanity
Usually for large businesses like universities IT can choose when to push updates.
Some versions like Home and Education might lack the options, but most Enterprise versions and LTSC versions can let you delay updates via the menu or disable updates completely via group policy fuckery.
Still bullshit that they have to, though.
Shutdown -a or whatever the flag is should abort it if I remember correctly
Yeah -a for “abort” Still, an user shouldn’t have to know that
our work uses macs but also Kandji for software management, which also locks you into restarts during business hours 😎
Because the alternative is people getting compromised and getting their computer crypto locked, accounts stolen or their bank account drained.
Other OSes can update everything while running and you just reboot to the updated system. Microsoft could definitely fix their update process they are not incompetent, they just don’t care.
The super duper shitty thing is that they could have canceled it by opening the Run dialog box and typing “shutdown -a”, so it’s not even like canceling wasn’t an option. M$ just decided to be dicks about it
M$ just decided to be dicks about it
A most concise yet comprehensive company bio.
Maybe? If I recall correctly, this was Windows XP. Also the computer was owned by the school, so the students didn’t have admin access.
That screen didn’t exist in Win XP. If it had, it would have been a different shade of blue. This is either Win10 though I suspect it’s Win11.
The event I’m referring to wasn’t OP’s photo. Mine was back in 2004 or 2005, long before Win10 was released.
Those kids are still wincing to this day
shutdown -acouldn’t help in that situation?For every 1 person who knows how to use the windows command line, there are 50 people struggling because they didn’t embed their video into their PowerPoint, or worse, their USB stick only contains a shortcut to their actual .ppt file
I mean, not to beat a dead horse but those are precisely the type of people who would push off an update forever if given the choice.
Not that a midday, mid work reboot is acceptable.
their USB stick only contains a shortcut to their actual .ppt file
This happened all the time when I was in middle school. Way to activate a suppressed memory.
That’s a very generous estimate. I didn’t know about it and I work in IT.
I love these comments. If you need to use the command line (the largest argument people have against Linux) why are people still arguing to stay on Windows? Hell, Linux you don’t even need the terminal if you don’t want to use it and choose the right distro.
(I recognize that for schools and offices, people don’t have a choice. These students were probably on a personal laptop though, so they could have a choice. The issue is Windows comes as default and no one actually makes a choice. They don’t choose Windows. They just have Windows.)
Windows always gets a pass from it’s fans. They also tend to overestimate average users’ proficiency with computers (meaning windows) way more than linux users.
Most windows users would be afraid to change stuff on CP or Settings never mind opening up policy editor or registry editor.
They regularly fail to install applications on windows (a big part of them would probably not even try) or install something different than intended.
Usually they end up running million unnecessary things on startup, having completely unresponsive systems. They just shrug and cope with it till they pay someone to format their computer or they buy a new one.
The arrogance of some Linux users… You just can’t fathom that most people just want to use the OS their PC came with. These people don’t want to struggle with the incompatibilities that come with Linux systems. Troubleshooting Linux systems is a daunting task for most casual users. It’s great that you use Linux because fuck greedy corporations. But stop being so uppity about it. This toxic behavior is what steers people away from Linux forums.
You just can’t fathom that most people just want to use the OS their PC came with.
No they don’t they want to get a task done. The vast majority of users doesn’t know what an OS or a browser is never mind that there are alternatives.
These people don’t want to struggle with the incompatibilities that come with Linux systems.
Most people are simply not aware of Linux systems let alone linux system incompatibilities.
Troubleshooting Linux systems is a daunting task for most casual users.
No shit, troubleshooting windows is a daunting task for most casual users. They either nag/pay someone to try and fix it or simply cope with it. And windows fucks up all the time, especially for most users.
It’s great that you use Linux because fuck greedy corporations. But stop being so uppity about it. This toxic behavior is what steers people away from Linux forums.
People don’t just randomly get on Linux forums, especially linux memes forums. Nor is my previous comment in any way or form toxic. I just pointed out the blind spot of windows fans, you just can’t handle criticism.
They didn’t know, but yea.
Damn I forgot about that
Is this a w11 thing? Or does o&o shutup in default settings disable stuff like that. I actually never have seen a forced reboot like that myself.
It sounds really shitty and i dislike windows alot.
It only happens if you neglect to install updates for a very long time, which is a pretty dumb thing to do. This is actually a non-issue if you just install the damn updates once they’re announced. Just update when shutting down. Also, using home edition is pretty dumb. With the pro version you’ll likely never run into this problem.
“Don’t turn off” is the worst kind of status message.
When it eventually hangs for various reasons, you actually do need to turn off your pc for it to complete or to let it roll back in an error state.
When “just hang in there” is still present on the third day you’ll start wondering why you bought that piece of furniture and won’t mind the consequences of turning it off.
What should it say instead?
Console output with status of the current operation, including error and warning messages
Not to defend Windows too much in a Linux community, but you can turn on verbose status messages for the screens you see during startup, shutdown, login and log off. It’s a setting that can either be turned on with the local or domain group policy, or by registry key.
Still though, it’s not as detailed as full console output, but is definitely more helpful than just telling you to wait.
Source please. I need this as I am forced to use Windows for work. Where is the registry key I need to change mlord
In group policy (local or domain):
Computer Configuration > Administrative Templates > System > Display highly detailed status messagesAlso make sure that this policy is not set or set to disabled:
Computer Configuration > Administrative Templates > System > Remove Boot / Shutdown / Logon / Logoff status messagesInstead of using local group policy you could use the registry:
HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SOFTWARE\Microsoft\Windows\CurrentVersion\Policies\System
“VerboseStatus”=dword:00000001If you do it through registry, make sure this key is either non-existant or set to 0.
HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SOFTWARE\Microsoft\Windows\CurrentVersion\Policies\System
“DisableStatusMessages”Thanks. That should also be fairly easy to automate. Might set it up as a powershell script so I have it on every Windows pc I am forced to use. Much appreciated kind stranger
The average user does not want to see that and does not need to see that. That’s how you end up with thousands of support requests of “why is my computer showing these errors?”
Things should be abstracted from the users by default. There’s no need for grandma to see a console output every time windows needs to update.
I disagree. I think that some aspects of the software should be open about what they’re doing to everyone. Otherwise people just get used to the idea that everything is a black box that they have no real control of. It also helps educate people on IT and its concepts overall.
Even if they can’t specifically tell what is going on, they can see something is going on. And as long as this does not make it harder to use, the more info the better.
This might take several minutes
…or itcould take several hours
Then failed half way through, and needed another hour to “reverse changes”.
It says “several” but I think it means “many”, important distinction to make there Microsoft.
“If you play your cards right and allow recall ;)”
or itcould take several hours
only if you have a shitty computer full of garbage. My windows updates only take 2 minutes or less. even feature updates only take about 4 minutes to reboot.
Windows is only shitty if you don’t know how to use it. Just because you know what the buttons do doesn’t mean you know how to use it.
Trigger warning! Updating my linux systems takes 15 seconds ;)
And you can postpone it to whenever you want, also post thesis defence.
You have to cut Microsoft some slack on mandatory updates. They’re still traumatized from the XP era when they were the platform of choice for botnets and “Windows security” was a laughing stock.
Tbh, if Linux had the same user base as windows had back then a large amount of people would postpone any update indefinitely and we’d be in the same shit.
Yeah it’s a different game when your user base is tech savvy and self-selecting. When you have to deal with a billion non-technical people you have to be a lot more protective.
But even so Linux seems miles ahead. It’s Microsoft who should be the most motivated to add things like AppArmor, Flatpak, immutable system, curated app repos, executable as a filesystem attribute etc. They’re doing none of that, they plateaued at UAC and bundling their own antivirus.
They tried. UWP and the Windows Store did loads to boost security and make the source of apps verifiable, but people hated it and barely used it, so the holes they were supposed to patch stayed open. The store itself did have the problem that part of its raison d’être was to try and take a cut of the sales of all software for Windows, like Apple do for iOS, and UWP made certain things a pain or impossible (sometimes because they were inherently insecure), but UWP wasn’t tied to the store and did improve even though it’s barely used.
executable as a filesystem attribute
This already exists. It’s labeled as “Traverse folder / execute file” in the UI.
NTFS permissions are also more powerful than the default Linux permission system. Instead of just being able to define permissions for a single user and single group, you can define them for an arbitrary number of users and groups.
I say “default Linux permission system” because you can actually use ACLs on Linux (
getfaclandsetfaclcommands), they’re just not used by default. They used to be common in businesses and schools, but these days everyone seems to store their files “in the cloud” and the permissions are managed there instead.curated app repos
This is what the Windows store is supposed to be. There’s also WinGet, but I’m not sure if it’s curated.
True
It depends how out of date you are.
Absolutely, but unless you’re on a rolling release, it still won’t be that long. For example, my homelab ubuntu server didn’t get updated for over a month, but when I finally did run updates it finished after no more than a minute. Depends a bit on hardware and network speed though.
It shouldn’t be an issue even on a rolling release. I mean it’s not like it installs every intermediary version of every package, it just jumps to the latest versions no? At least that’s how I imagine it works.
Right, but my tumbleweed install gets 100+ package updates per week, whereas ubuntu gets like 20
Yes. The question comes down to how many of these you need. And do you have the resources for it?
How does that “garbage” affect update time?
if your computer is full of crap it will be slow.
Not necessarily true
Troll successful lol
Bullshit, paid Windows shill. Even a brand new, high end PC on a fast internet with a fresh (non-OEM full of crap) install of Windows takes LITERALLY SEVERAL HOURS to fully update and often even minor updates will take at least an hour depending on what’s being updated.
Don’t give me that shit. You know it’s a lie. Windows is trash.
or it could take several hours
Would give you enough time to get your mouse drivers working on Linux then
What’s mouse drivers, precious?
They have tiny tiny cars sweetheart
Should make that screen the first slide of the PowerPoint
One in the middle, including the pop-up notification about a pending restart before that. Hahaha nice
I know what to do next time I’m teaching on 4/1…
Also do it on 4/20.
I’m going to do this now
My favorite windows update was when I was attending an onsite coding competition hosted my Microsoft. We were all in this large meeting hall that looked like a theater, and we spent first 10 minutes or so at the start of the competition just looking at Windows update, with the Microsoft rep apologizing to us, because his pc decided to do the “Forced update restart you cant postpone any more” literally two minutes into the presentation
When your dog food tastes like dog food
As a presenter would be mortified.
As an attendee, hilarious.
As an attendee, would be somewhat annoyed
As someone on the Internet, hilarious
That’s probably the presenter’s fault for not updating it earlier. Keep on top of your updates so they don’t force you to do it at an unfortunate time.
That is an MS Teams Room system in the conference room, it runs Windows IOT. Whoever manages those rooms should have set the working hours of the room so it didn’t apply this update during business hours. By default the system updates at 2 or 2:30 AM, I forget… so might be a weird MS bug or someone fudged up a config
Source - installed a lot of these a few years ago.
I’ve always set windows to update around late hours.
But once in a while, Microsoft ignores that and does updates anyways. Usually just a quick min or two. But it’s still annoying.
Probably Windows default is just Pacific Time.
Oh god, Windows IoT is the real-time version used for robots in the medical industry or serious stuff. This is overkill.
Windows IoT can be configured into a soft-realtime (realtimey-wimey). Disabling audio is one of the steps, so I doubt it’s rtos mode for teams.
IoTs target market is companies reselling an appliance that runs on windows. So a Teams Room appliance is a perfect use-case for IoT
You should start your defense saying the same thing.
And then just sit silently and spin around and around on the chair for 15 minutes.
Unorthodox, but the boldness we need for this brave new world.
Its the final boss.
You need to fight the windows update!
It’s* the final boss.
dont bother correcting apostrophes as its not a grammatical mistake, simply lazy typing. well never stop doing that no matter how much yall tell us not to, cuz it simply aint all that much of a problem
And you are the grammar end boss
Cool ceiling tile
sponsored by Proxmox
Much as I always feel Microsoft has made some horrible missteps around automatic updates…I also think many many users are vocally and unabashedly following horrible update policies.
The biggest one is “Fuck you, Microsoft, I don’t ever want to update.” A simple truth about Windows is that it is currently the most popular operating system in the world. If that OS was Unix-based, the resulting truth would still be true: The most popular OS is going to be the most common target for vulnerabilities, hacks, malware, and exploits. Far more than an antivirus, keeping that computer up to date is the most important step for keeping it secure.
This is true not just of computers used to manage your bank account and nuclear launch codes, but of the swarm of “convenience” computers sitting inside a campus network that could spread a virus to everything on the Wi-Fi.
So, looking at this image, it’s a shame on Microsoft moment if this update came from nowhere, or they once again blatantly ignored the configured update time. It’s a shame on the campus moment if someone was repeatedly closing the “Time to update” popup.
Other systems like ChromeOS and Silverblue do atomic updates in the background and then switch on next restart. No waiting at screens like this. Heck even the conventional Linux update system, while far from foolproof, doesn’t require waiting like this.
-
So does windows for the most part
-
Do you know how often users actually restart their machines without being forced?
Do you know how often users actually restart their machines without being forced?
If Windows would actually shut the fuck down when asked to do so, this wouldn’t be a problem.
I complained enough at my work about this that we shut off fast boot domain wide. I haven’t had to have a “I know that you just turned your computer on but I need you to restart it. No, not shutdown and turn on, restart. Yes, they are different things.” conversation in a couple years. Funnily enough I haven’t seen anyone complain about the significantly longer start up times. I guess people just expect that from windows lol.
I think people just don’t care about startup times. They do it maybe once per day (if they don’t sleep and resume), and they probably get a coffee or something while it’s starting up.
Walk in, press on button, hang up jacket and get stuff out of bag, type in password, grab coffee.
That’s a pretty common morning pattern I see.
Perhaps the solution is to figure out how to update without restarting. It is a hard problem, but a forced restart is the same as a crash from a user perspective.
Imagine if they replaced the crash screen with a fake automatic update.
Years ago there was a screensaver that showed a fake “upgrading to Vista, please wait” screen. Just wait for someone to leave their computer unattended, download and set it as the screensaver, and wait for their reaction when they’re back :)
That’s some oblivion on xbox shit right there. Hide a restart with a loading screen.
Fairly often if it wasn’t for the whole fast startup thing, which isn’t present in Linux land. I would say at least every couple of weeks, which is good enough for updates.
No Windows doesn’t do atomic updates in the background, that’s why there is the whole installing updates screen on reboot or shutdown.
Yes it does? As far as I’m aware even Linux can’t apply updates to an active system.
You vastly misunderstand both what I am talking about, and how updates work on both Windows and Linux.
You don’t press shut down and then get a blue updating screen that stops you from doing anything on Linux. Go and update a Linux system and you will see what I am talking about. You run it just like a normal command or program.
Also yes they update the files on the drive while the system is running.
-
The issue is some updates don’t contain just security fixes, but rather privacy invading features and advertising that make the OS shittier.
Oh, no argument from me on that. And it’s horrible that Microsoft is starting to make people choose between having a secure system and avoiding their adware bullshit.
In addition to what was said by somebody else about atomic updates, even a simple update via package manager on a regular distro will do all the work up front, and not take extra time on next boot. Before you reboot, most things will continue working fine - and most of the remaining things that might not can be worked around.
this is why you use linux
This is why you check your equipment before any important events
What if Windows decided to update after you finished checking the equipment? I mean, they do use AI to determine the worst time for an update…
They update on two Tuesdays a month, and have done that at least since XP. Even with the most reboot-keen settings, the update doesn’t happen until the time of day you’re least likely to be using the machine based on when you typically do it. It tells you when that time will be and gives you several hours of notice with a popup with the option to delay. Depending on the variant of Windows you’re using, you have settings to delay a forced reboot for up to a week (Home), a month (Pro) or forever (Enterprise). Obviously, that’s not enough to make sure no one ever gets updates forced on them when they don’t want them, and it would be nice if there was a way to distinguish users who know what they’re doing from users who don’t so people who do could be given more power to control if and when they install updates, but it is enough to ensure that checking the equipment before you use it is enough, potentially two weeks in advance.
They update on two Tuesdays a month
Correction: It updates every second Tuesday of the month. (Not including any potential “Preview” updates which might get released. Those are all optional updates, though.)
deleted by creator
This looks like a public office space. You really gonna go argue with the building admin?
“Hey boss, the display in the corner office automatically updated. Can we get IT to switch everything to Linux?”
“why would we do that? Our systems don’t work on that, our people aren’t trained on that, no, get back to work”
I think that would be a pretty accurate reply to a casual request for an entire infrastructure change
“there is a bomb strapped to my chest, if you don’t install Linux on every computer in here I will explode taking you with me”
I wouldn’t recommend this method but It might work out
Next day headlines:
“Linux user blows up an office. Is Linux a cult?”I mean Is it wrong tho
The IT admin: https://youtu.be/5l6l9T2w1DQ
Here is an alternative Piped link(s):
https://piped.video/5l6l9T2w1DQ
Piped is a privacy-respecting open-source alternative frontend to YouTube.
I’m open-source; check me out at GitHub.
Good bot
our systems
Guaranteed all of your backend systems are running Linux. If not, holy hell why.
our people aren’t trained on that
Oh no, pointy-clicky on things on a desktop is so hard to train for people who have used an OS where you… um… pointy-clicky on things on a desktop. Whatever shall we do.
Excuses. All I hear from people who want to keep obsolete, trash, laughable, insecure Windows.
Complain all you want, not a single manager out there is going to shut down any part of the active systems in place and potentially lose business to upgrade to Linux. At that point, just bring your own laptop instead of moaning about it.
And I used to think the “just switch to linux” guys were a meme, bro you’re making me want to switch back to windows out of spite
Enjoy your BSOD and Microsoft stealing all your data, then.
It’s like talking to a little kid
Yes
You don’t need admin to plug your computer into the AV do you? I assumed it was OP’s computer.
Depends on how it’s set up i guess, but if it’s your own PC that’s kind of on you id imagine
had to recompile my audio drivers with headphone support just before thesis defense
linux can have some pretty weird quirks though. (don’t get me wrong I’ve been dailydriving linux for several years and I’m not going to use windows unless I’m forced)
one time I was about to do presentation, I has multiple files and windows in order to present the whole program we had developed, some powerpoint, demo, and the source code.
then came my time to do the presentation and I plugged in the hdmi cable and my fucking account just logged out. dunno if the session crashed or something, but I had to quickly scramble everything back since all my apps were closed lol.
I do have older quadro nvidia though
HDMI? Don’t you know HDCP is proprietary? Best to just log out. Stallman was right and all!
Important question: is mesa? If not, then fuck Nvidia. If yes, then fuck Nvidia regardless, but karlherbst and other nouveau devs would like to get crashlogs if there was crash.
Was it reproduced later? What enviroment?
nah propiertary, sometimes happens randomly and gnome
Ah. When I was using proprietary, I had problems too.
Having been in a similar situation, I now bash script things like that, so it’s
./present_dat_shit.shand you’re up and ready, even if things bug out. If it’s a really important presentation, you can also add a live boot SSD backup if you’re serious about redundancy.Live boot SSD backup that boots right into presentation.
Sure, but are you really going to go find the building admin and argue with them to update all of their OS’ to something they probably don’t understand? Linux is primarily a power user platform, not a mainstream one.
Yeah dude. Just get every computer at school and business to use Linux. Duh.
🙄
I had windows do a large update in the middle of an exam once. Like the major version number changes or something, took probably like an hour and a half. I was quite lucky with the exact timing and the fact that I am usually able to finish exams quickly as I did end up having half an hour for the exam, but it did make the whole situation a bit more spicy than necessary.
That’s the least of your worries. Once it reboots, its proprietary spyware…errr…AI…will resume taking screenshots of everything you do.
Depending on how the windows network is set up, this may happen every time someone logs in
