I disagree. Memes are powerful tools and by denying ourselves the use of popular memes we grant “the enemy” an enormous advantage. Better we acknowledge that the issue is not the meme itself, but how it is used.
But there is an issue with the meme itself. It often associates whiteness (notice how the chad is explicitly a white guy with blonde hair and blue eyes) with being good/right, or physical characteristics associated with ‘stupidity’ (drooling, dented head) with being wrong. The underlying white supremacy & ableism is still there.
And no, we shouldn’t compromise on our values to use popular memes.
I dunno, I see your point but does the guy on the left really have a dented head? I thought those were forehead lines from emotional agitation. Also, where is the drool? I only see tears. I don’t really see the inherent ableism, as much as I see a negative representation things like lack of emotional regulation, “neckbeardyness,” etc. I agree moreso on the whiteness and general tidyness of the chad, and the association of beauty with good and ugliness with bad – I kinda buy your argument there. It is pretty shit that we do that, but I don’t necessarily think it’s wrong for the OP to use this meme template. Ignorant? Maybe.
I feel like you could use similar strategies to decry any meme. For example, the glorification of violence through imagery and use of the word “weapon” in your own meme. Obviously, I’m not going to seriously suggest you’re perpetuating the glorification of violence through your meme, but I kinda think its the same with OPs meme.
Edit: to be clear, all my thoughts on this are entirely from the last 20 min. I assumed you’ve thought more about this subject than me, so I consider myself pretty swayable. But idk, my initial reaction is that we’re looking too far into a meme.
When I talk about dented head and drools, I’m not referring to this soyjak in particular (which is far from the worst), but many who are commonly used have that, such as this one (obvious CW for ableism)
Sorry for the confusion there!
(to clarify, I don’t think OP had any shitty intentions. but that’s why we should point out this stuff IMO, because it slips through the cracks and even people with good intentions can unknowingly spread shitty ideologies. I’m certainly not free of blame either)
as for the rest… well yea, no piece of media is morally without faults, memes included. but in the case of wojaks, I fell like the faults are high and obvious enough that we should still avoid using them.
Oh yeah that one is bad, you’re right. Also the meme with the bell curve is definitely ableist. Hmm, you definitely bring up good points. Gotta chew on it a little. Much of this is just ingrained in us.
It is conveyed that the left should not resort to populism and simple imagery such as “wojacks” We prefer referring to nuanced 500 page essays to convey our arguments so that anyone without sufficient vocabulary and/or time will remain excluded from our circles.
she’s alluding to the fact that these characters — the ‘soyjack’ and ‘gigachad’ — are historically, and still actively are, alt-right charicatures. together with their friends, ‘tradwife’ and ‘doomer (girl)’: they represent misogynistic, racist, antisemitic, and white supremacist tropes.
Must they continue to do so? On their own they are nothing but stand-ins for people or ideologies. If we can reclaim entire slurs, surely we can reclaim these, no?
Even on their own, the shitty alt-right ideology is still present. Notice how the chad, the guy we’re meant to agree with, is very often (not always, but often) a white, blonde-haired, blue-eyed guy?
Or how the guy with the wrong opinions we’re meant to mock is often a drooling person with a dented head?
The ableism and white supremacy of the right is still perceptible in the meme, even when it’s used to push leftist messages.
and on a more basic level, the idea of bad opinion = ugly, good opinion = beautiful is shitty and flirts with white supremacy (because what’s beautiful is very often dictated by eurocentric beauty standards), but that’s a problem in our societies as a whole, not just with this meme
None of those things necessarily need to be true, especially not
the idea of bad opinion = ugly, good opinion = beautiful is shitty and flirts with white supremacy
The shouting crying soyjak for depicting opinions of people who continue to hold stupid opinions despite all evidence to the contrary fits fairly well, and if you don’t like the beauty standards set by the default chad, there’s nothing stopping you from substituting your own, or just using any calm, levelheaded character in its place.
I disagree. Memes are powerful tools and by denying ourselves the use of popular memes we grant “the enemy” an enormous advantage. Better we acknowledge that the issue is not the meme itself, but how it is used.
But there is an issue with the meme itself. It often associates whiteness (notice how the chad is explicitly a white guy with blonde hair and blue eyes) with being good/right, or physical characteristics associated with ‘stupidity’ (drooling, dented head) with being wrong. The underlying white supremacy & ableism is still there.
And no, we shouldn’t compromise on our values to use popular memes.
I dunno, I see your point but does the guy on the left really have a dented head? I thought those were forehead lines from emotional agitation. Also, where is the drool? I only see tears. I don’t really see the inherent ableism, as much as I see a negative representation things like lack of emotional regulation, “neckbeardyness,” etc. I agree moreso on the whiteness and general tidyness of the chad, and the association of beauty with good and ugliness with bad – I kinda buy your argument there. It is pretty shit that we do that, but I don’t necessarily think it’s wrong for the OP to use this meme template. Ignorant? Maybe.
I feel like you could use similar strategies to decry any meme. For example, the glorification of violence through imagery and use of the word “weapon” in your own meme. Obviously, I’m not going to seriously suggest you’re perpetuating the glorification of violence through your meme, but I kinda think its the same with OPs meme.
Edit: to be clear, all my thoughts on this are entirely from the last 20 min. I assumed you’ve thought more about this subject than me, so I consider myself pretty swayable. But idk, my initial reaction is that we’re looking too far into a meme.
When I talk about dented head and drools, I’m not referring to this soyjak in particular (which is far from the worst), but many who are commonly used have that, such as this one (obvious CW for ableism)
Sorry for the confusion there!
(to clarify, I don’t think OP had any shitty intentions. but that’s why we should point out this stuff IMO, because it slips through the cracks and even people with good intentions can unknowingly spread shitty ideologies. I’m certainly not free of blame either)
as for the rest… well yea, no piece of media is morally without faults, memes included. but in the case of wojaks, I fell like the faults are high and obvious enough that we should still avoid using them.
Oh yeah that one is bad, you’re right. Also the meme with the bell curve is definitely ableist. Hmm, you definitely bring up good points. Gotta chew on it a little. Much of this is just ingrained in us.
Can you elaborate?
It is conveyed that the left should not resort to populism and simple imagery such as “wojacks” We prefer referring to nuanced 500 page essays to convey our arguments so that anyone without sufficient vocabulary and/or time will remain excluded from our circles.
Thesaurus > Wojack.
she’s alluding to the fact that these characters — the ‘soyjack’ and ‘gigachad’ — are historically, and still actively are, alt-right charicatures. together with their friends, ‘tradwife’ and ‘doomer (girl)’: they represent misogynistic, racist, antisemitic, and white supremacist tropes.
Must they continue to do so? On their own they are nothing but stand-ins for people or ideologies. If we can reclaim entire slurs, surely we can reclaim these, no?
Even on their own, the shitty alt-right ideology is still present. Notice how the chad, the guy we’re meant to agree with, is very often (not always, but often) a white, blonde-haired, blue-eyed guy?
Or how the guy with the wrong opinions we’re meant to mock is often a drooling person with a dented head?
The ableism and white supremacy of the right is still perceptible in the meme, even when it’s used to push leftist messages.
and on a more basic level, the idea of bad opinion = ugly, good opinion = beautiful is shitty and flirts with white supremacy (because what’s beautiful is very often dictated by eurocentric beauty standards), but that’s a problem in our societies as a whole, not just with this meme
None of those things necessarily need to be true, especially not
The shouting crying soyjak for depicting opinions of people who continue to hold stupid opinions despite all evidence to the contrary fits fairly well, and if you don’t like the beauty standards set by the default chad, there’s nothing stopping you from substituting your own, or just using any calm, levelheaded character in its place.
Ah I see thanks
They represent what the meme creator intends, nothing else.