Also offensive: pointing out that English speakers do not use the word “American” to refer to people from Latin America. The term in our language is universally used to refer to people from the country America.

  • ZagorathOP
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    3 hours ago

    for example a good chunk of my family speaks a Venetian variety

    As in, the Italo-Western Romance language? That’s fascinating! When you said there are about 200 other languages, I was expecting indigenous languages and maybe some Spanish, but certainly not other European languages. What’s the history there? Were there Italian colonies in Brazil, or a notable migration of Italians to Portuguese colonies?

    See, this is exactly the sort of conversation I had hoped the original thread would lead to. Interesting linguistics, history, and geography. Until dessalines came in with the toxicity.

    • Lvxferre [he/him]@mander.xyz
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      55 minutes ago

      As in, the Italo-Western Romance language?

      Yup, that one. Numbers are not to be trusted, but estimates are usually around 500k speakers in Brazil alone. There’s also a bunch of them in Argentina, and even in Mexico (more specifically Chipilo, Puebla).

      Under Brazilian territory Venetian is often called “Talian”, and sometimes partially creolised with Portuguese. The name is a misnomer though, the language has little to do with the Tuscan-based standard Italian.

      When you said there are about 200 other languages, I was expecting indigenous languages and maybe some Spanish, but certainly not other European languages

      There are a few other colonial languages among those 200, like Eastern Pomeranian (Low German; extinct in Europe after WW2), Hunsrik (German too, but in the Franconian group). And I wouldn’t be surprised if here in Paraná some Polish- or Silesian-speaking clusters survived.

      Additionally, some folks down north use Kikongo (a Bantu language, brought to South America due to African slavery) as a liturgical language for their syncretic religion (candomblé).

      That said the “bulk” of those 200 languages I mentioned are Amerindian languages indeed. Typically Macro-Ge and Tupi-Guarani families.

      What’s the history there? Were there Italian colonies in Brazil, or a notable migration of Italians to Portuguese colonies?

      Yup, immigrants. Not just in Brazil; Latin America as a whole got a lot of them in the XIX and early XX centuries, and since Italy was in a ruckus a lot of them were from Italy. Mostly Gallo-Italic speakers in a “belt” between São Paulo and Buenos Aires. Both are tendencies though, and there are plenty exceptions - São Paulo city for example got also a bunch of Calabrians and Sicilians, and as I said there were Venetians even in Mexico.

      Other common groups of immigrants in LatAm were Iberians, Germans, Levantine Arabs, Japanese. But the distribution changes heavily from place to place; for example here in Paraná we got quite a few Poles and even a few Ukrainians and Lithuanians, but up south in Chubut (Argentina) there were Welsh immigrants instead.

      See, this is exactly the sort of conversation I had hoped the original thread would lead to. Interesting linguistics, history, and geography. Until dessalines came in with the toxicity.

      There’s [email protected] for any topic involving language. [Disclaimer: I’m one of the mods there.]

      That backtracks to the main subject: the community was originally in lemmy.ml. One of the reasons why I migrated it to mander.xyz was the notoriously poorly way that .ml admins enforce rules in their instance - with the straw that broke the camel’s back, for me, being [email protected]. (I wasn’t a mod there but I’m a weeb so…)

      Now thinking, if I didn’t do so, I bet that I would enter in direct conflict with dessalines and cypherpunk. What if someone wanted to talk about the Uyghur language? Or surzhyk (mixed Ukrainian/Russian) varieties? Bloody hell, even Proto-Indo-European (the Late PIE homeland is right where the war is happening now). Even mentions of lavender linguistics (i.e. how queer people use language) would become a ticking bomb.

      • ZagorathOP
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        23 minutes ago

        Other common groups of immigrants in LatAm were … Japanese

        Ah yes, I completely forgot about the Japanese/Brazilian relation. I did have familiarity with it previously, though.

        the straw that broke the camel’s back, for me, being [email protected]

        Interesting. I’ve never had an interest in anime. What happened with that community?

        the Late PIE homeland is right where the war is happening now

        I know that’s one reasonably well-supported hypothesis, but I thought there were others with some reasonable support that place it further southeast, around Armenia and Georgia? But yeah, I’m a strong supporter of communities leaving ML. And LW, though that’s for different reasons. Thanks for the community rec though!