It’s abundantly clear that there are plenty of loons walking among us, and that fame, wealth, and authority absolutely do not exclude a person from being a loon.
I’m not saying David Grusch is a loon. I’m saying that, between “there is a government conspiracy to hide the fact that actual intelligent extraterrestrial beings are visiting Earth, and the government is collecting their technology and reverse engineering it” and “the guy who truly believes that is a loon,” one of those statements is far more likely to be true than the other one. One of those statements would require a huge number of people to be completely silent about such a thing for decades, and the other would require one loon to believe it.
I agree with your overall point.
That being said, there is a significantly substantial body of evidence involved in disclosure efforts up to this point. Many government officials have come forward with variations of this story - Grusch is just the latest and the one with the most stature. His accounts are also the least wide-ranging and in my humble opinion, some of the most credible. Secondly, disclosure has been in-process by whistleblowers in other governments as well for multiple decades - there’s a lot of credible evidence to suggest this isn’t a new phenomena.
Having witnessed a few UAP at a distance myself (including some before drones took over the skies), I think that it’s pretty clear that something we don’t understand is here, and has been here for awhile now. I think the jury is out on whether or not they are intelligent, alive,or a phenomena related to physics we don’t understand, but there’s simply too much evidence to deny their reality, and I gotta confess, especially after seeing them in the sky, I really want to find out.
Grusch’s actions are the first step in really figuring out if the DoD knows anything. He went through the proper legal routes, and he’s whistleblowing on obvious obstruction that prevented him from performing the Congressional mandate of his job. He has everything to lose here, and nothing to gain. I’m inclined to believe him.
If we have had access to technology that can manage the immense distances between livable planets in our galaxy for almost a hundred years and we cannot get a human to Mars, we are beyond hope.
If any of this has even the slightest grain of truth to it, you have to admit that we (humanity) are way to fucking dumb to ever explore the stars.
Fuck that’s a depressing thought. We have been looking at the tech for a century and we got nothing? I suppose that might be driving my bias on this. I am not asking for proof of the programs, I am asking why there is no evidence that humans have been looking at interstellar travel tech for a century. Either it’s horseshit, or we are hella dumb animals.
Yeah and if you look at humans in 1400 there’s no way they’ll ever invent the internet, right?
And yet the very fact you associate talking about UAPs with being a loon is the result of a dedicated effort by US intelligence.
After the front page news of sightings over Washington DC, it wasn’t very long until Gene Pope, an MIT graduate and previously part of the CIA’s psyops program, went and bought the National Enquirer and later the Weekly World News. Which made UFO news adjacent to batboy or gossip.
I happen to think the notion these are extraterrestrial is ludicrous and there’s many more reasonable explanations short of that conclusion. But there is a significant story in how these sightings have been handled over the past century up to the present day.
While I think alien hopefuls will be disappointed, interesting things should come out of this if continued to be pursued.
I mean, in his shoes I would probably also feel compelled to call out the loons in my field too. I hear dumb shit on social media websites concerning my actual domain of expertise, and I get accused of whatever when I call it out. Don’t get.in the way of a good outrage story, or conspiracy, unless you want to find out just how many loons are lurking out there.
I bet the people who think the government is reverse engineering alien technology in perfect secrecy are also people who think the government is too incompetent to do anything right.
Legislative government and government-funded military aren’t the same thing. If the United States had access to alien technology first, hoarding it in secrecy would be a textbook military move.
It wouldn’t just be the US government. If alien artifacts are as common as some people make them out to be, every government in the world would have to not only be in on the conspiracy, but also doing their part masterfully in an age when everyone has a phone in their pocket capable of broadcasting to the whole world.
It’s even worse if they’re actually succeeding in reverse engineering alien technology, because they’d have to either never use it, or fake something like the Manhattan Project to explain where the technology came from.
Getting back to the idiocy of people who think governments can’t do anything right, those same people are often big fans on the military and law enforcement, completely failing to acknowledge that those things are functions of the government, because that would mean admitting the government can, in fact, do some things really well.
Fair point
That got me curious so I searched :
loon
noun
1- Any of several fish-eating diving birds of the genus Gavia of northern regions, having a short tail, webbed feet, and a laughlike cry.
2- One who is crazy or deranged.
3- A stupid fellow; a clown: with various shades of intensity as an opprobrious epithet, like fool, dolt, etc.lunatic
noun
1- A person who is affected by lunacy; a mentally deranged person.
2- A very foolish person.
3- A person affected with lunacy; specifically, an insane person who has lucid intervals, or one whose unsoundness of mind is acquired, not congenital, as distinguished from an idiot.Lunacy: the moooon made me do it
It wouldn’t though. I’m not saying UAPs are extraterrestrial. I’m saying as long as each person who leaks is met with plenty of, “no, you’re crazy.” It would help contain it.
Both with pressure and delegitimization. Now… proof is the thing that’s required. Not simply testimony.
Asked whether the U.S. government had information about extraterrestrial life, Grusch said the U.S. likely has been aware of “non-human” activity since the 1930s.
If everyone who claims that is a loon (and they may be), then the leakers are auto-discredited.
Again and with clear emphasis because it looks like it was missed: I’m not saying UAPs are extraterrestrial. I’m making a meta-point.
If leakers are almost automatically easily classed as loons, then any inquiry isn’t an inquiry. They may be off their rockers.
And even “super-advanced tech” need not have extraterrestrial origin. But UAPs happen. We all seem to have forgotten O’Hare. Whatever happened was in passenger jet airspace.
Regardless of what planetary origin, UAPs deserve inquiry.
This is a thought provoking book. The author was even interviewed by Colbert and presented very cogently. Which is why I bought and read it.
Before anyone knee-jerks, it attempts to only use the most credible UAP encounters and looks at them with skepticism and a scientific mind.
To add onto this, iirc the current US policy of, “discredit and ignore” was created during the cold war because they didn’t want it to distract Americans from the red scare and possibility of nuclear war. They actually brought in a team of scientists to take all the project blue book cases and come up with a reason for what was happening, and if they couldn’t think of anything, they were supposed to just make something up. It’s why “swamp gas” and “weather balloons” are meme’d about. The result is that because the public stopped taking it seriously, the military stopped taking it seriously as well. Since then, I think I remember reading that some of the scientists have expressed regret for doing it because they saw reports that they couldn’t explain or even imagine an explanation for; but they wouldn’t have done it if they’d realized how strong of a chilling effect it’d have on the subject.
To be clear, I’m not saying that it is aliens either, but there was an effort made to discredit UFO reports and it worked extremely well.
I’m saying it. He’s a loon. He thinks the Pope helped smuggle a UFO out of Mussolini’s Italy to the U.S.
The Pope and Mussolini were allies, by the way.
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This hearing was crazyballs and I recommend anyone who sees this watch it. You can find it on YouTube on the house oversight page.
Seriously a wild ride start to finish.
With absolutely zero evidence, as per usual.
No evidence, but what is different this time is an actual legal complaint with the IG with a lot of info the public can’t see. Grusch’s claims are fantastic and sound down right crazy, but his story has stayed the same. Plus with him being an intelligence agent for years with multiple government officials saying he’s been trustworthy in the past.
I look at it as either there’s some faction if the government that for some reason wants us to believe there’s aliens or he’s not been fed lies and there’s aliens and both are pretty interesting. It also was pretty bipartisan in the hearing, I was pretty surprised to see AOC there instead of just a bunch of right wing war mongerers looking to use it as an excuse to bump military funding a bit more, and she had some great questions for Grusch.
Unfortunately if everything he says is true it would be all classified so we wouldn’t hear it yet anyway making it convenient to lie, but why have a legal complaint with the IG if he just wanted to lie for fame? We’ve seen other UFO grifters make tons of money from people with way less effort. It’s far more interesting than the normal UFO stuff just because everything seems to be handled so properly for an absolutely insane claim and either way it’s going to be interesting to see what is going on, if we ever do.
Huh
If someone presents evidence in court that a reporter doesn’t get to see, there is still evidence submitted.
If I had to make a wild guess, i think this dude got a hold of a bunch of misinformation that was meant to get to the Soviet’s in order to scare them into behaving in certain ways during the Cold War. It was bullshit built for another audience and somehow he got it handed his way as though it was fact. He isn’t lying, he has bad info and the fact that the info is bad is VERY classified.
Is anyone from the CIA testifying, or is it all defense folks?
How would info from the 00s be “for the soviets?”
I think you should watch the hearings.
Yeah, I probably should be more up to date on what is being said before speculating. Not sure I have the patience but perhaps that means I should just keep my mouth shut.
Sure will be interesting to see where this ends though.
I can save you two hrs (though it is a very interesting hearing). There are basically 3 possible options, given the paper trail/witnesses.
1: There is a massive public/private embezzlement scheme going on, and “off the books” UAP funding is one of the many ways funds are embezzled
2: UAPs are alien craft, past and present, and the US has some forms of these craft (some very old, some shot down or crashed recently) and studies them off the books
3: There is a massive disinformation network that our own auditing got caught up in
All 3 are pretty wild stories, from a government-transparency/constitutional balance of power concern.
Pending evidence review in a SCIF (next hearings), it seems the most likely outcome is #1 or #2, both of which are fucking crazy and worth headlines.
#1 is hardly far fetched. Create an organization in the government with a top secret rating. Divert money. Avoid all questions or fake some answers occasionally. Grift for decades.
It’s not so much that it’s far fetched as something we really, really want to catch and disincentivize
I’ve watched a huge chunk of it.
This dude lays out how the DoD siphons money to pay for the reverse engineering, the other two give testimony of their encounters, and I have to say this is some fascinating stuff!
It’s literally Mulder’s wet dream!
buh it was under oath, what if someone proves aliens dont exist, he might go to jail
An oath or legal affirmation can be made if what you’re saying is true and accurate to the best of your own ability and perceptions.
If you say something under oath with the intent to deceive or omit key information or evidence for any reason really, then this could be considered perjury, which is a crime under most legal systems.
If you truly believe you saw an alien and were completely convinced of that and testified that you saw one, yet your claim was found to be factually incorrect, you most likely would not be liable for perjury nor did you do anything illegal (in many modern legal systems). You would simply be wrong.
This could cause you to become an “unreliable witness” which might mean anything else you say or claim is taken with less weight, even in areas you might specialize in. For example, how much would you trust a cardiac surgeon who claimed they had frequent encounters with aliens from outer space?
It doesn’t need to be aliens.
Gourch was very clear to dismiss extraterrestrial origins. And his boss’s quoted denial to Congress claimed there was no evidence of extraterrestrial origin.
The same theoretical physics Gourch discussed (effectively wormholes) to travel faster than light is the same principle to travel through time (i.e. spacetime).
Earth has only been sending out detectable signals of intelligence for around a century which would have reached a max radius of around a hundred light years.
That’s not a lot of area for extraterrestrial life to have come from to give a crap about visiting us.
But would future Earth be interested in visiting past Earth?
Would that origin maybe be more likely to be flying in formations like our own pilots do?
Or more likely to have tech tailored to explicitly target our modern radar systems to disable them?
It’s much more of a leap to arrive at extraterrestrial life being aware of and interested in Earth and humanity so early on in our signals production to come so frequently that sightings are commonplace, and yet be using tech and behaviors that are closer to a far future version of our own rather than something that seemed to have evolved entirely separately.
If this is some physics breaking origin, it’s from our own future, not from some odd corner of space.
There is no way to make any assessment on what is “most likely” given the information we have.
All we can do is continue to unpack.
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What timeline is this?
Did Nelson Mandela die in jail? Is Michael Jackson still black?
No, yes, plus Sinead O’Connor died today and apparently Mitch McConnel did not, officially.
Seriously : Anything substantial ? tldr ?
my stupid joke below :
( … don’t read if you don’t feel like it … )
I have my very own UFO capture program which I concealed for many decades now. Unfortunately, it has zero UFOs or UAP to this date. Maybe tomorrow … who knows.Absolutely nothing substantial.
@PM_me_your_vagina_thanks Regarding your username, and as a token of my gratitude, here you have it : (joke)
PM (private message)
“_your_vagina_thanks”
He said there is a highly secret black program to retrieve non human intelligence (NHI) spacecraft and that he has classified evidence, including witnesses and locations, that he can provide to Congress for further investigation. He also said we have craft and non human bodies from them.
This is substantial because his claims are falsifiable and easy to investigate for Congress, potentially giving us insight into whether or not we actually have aliens and it’s been covered up. I wouldn’t believe this until we see a photo and/or Joe Biden says it’s true, but you should definitely follow this story and tell your friends about it so that they are prepared if it is shown to be true.
Thanks. This gives me some hope that part of it might be true.
Have re_read all other comments a few times and these stands out for me :
@InternetTubes
https://lemmy.world/comment/1773819 Humans body long under vacuum may look like aliens.@Pohl https://lemmy.world/comment/1761262 Cold war disinformation program.
@SCB https://lemmy.world/comment/1790279 Main three ways we can read those testimonies.
I didn’t watch the video, but a coworker sent an article about it. Guy says we have pulled non-biological entities from crashes.
lulz
