Lisp and Scheme are marvelous 60s-70s hippie acid-head languages. “Hey, let’s use a small set of primitives and treat code and data the same and we can run huge worlds with a tiny, recursive interpreter!”

By the time you get to Emacs though, many huge worlds have been built, and navigating the huge world(s) that small set of primitives has created can be…uh…daunting – both because of 1000s of people’s contributions and because of the weight of history (e.g. booleans are “predicates” – from calculus – thus all the “_p” names).

That said, at it’s core, it’s elegant and lovely.

https://preview.redd.it/g641rtwx502c1.jpeg?width=640&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=1d6fe005a93830eb624d5fd0324ae97c84135f86

so my question is, Is it worth it?

It’s worth more than a bunch of other people’s opinions.

Yes. It’s worth it.

If you’ve ever tweaked your Doom config, you’re already writing elisp. Going from setting options to writing new modes will certainly take time, but lisp is a language that builds on itself.

In fact, Emacs+elisp is one of the best systems for learning by doing. C-h f, C-h v, C-x C-e, etc will get you far. The built in tutorial is absolutely worth going thru, and understanding lisp will improve your understanding of other languages as well.

Let me cite RMS to answer that:

The editor itself was written entirely in Lisp. Multics Emacs proved to be a great success—programming new editing commands was so convenient that even the secretaries in his office started learning how to use it. They used a manual someone had written which showed how to extend Emacs, but didn’t say it was a programming. So the secretaries, who believed they couldn’t do programming, weren’t scared off. They read the manual, discovered they could do useful things and they learned to program.

source: https://www.gnu.org/gnu/rms-lisp.html

Programming in elisp is fun, too. Since it’s (typical for Lisp!) interactive programming features.

Elisp isn’t just a programming language it’s an execution environment and it doesn’t make a lot of sense to consider them separately.

For example the largest abstraction in elisp is the buffer. A lot of core language features revolve around and are greatly modified by the buffer. For example variable bindings can typically be overrides in buffer-local variables.

Furthermore there’s a lot of editor specifics that are interesting. Text properties are the least of which. Buffer narrowing is another. But what about… fields? Judicious use of fields limits where you can type into a buffer. Consider the customize user interface for example.

Basically emacs is a complete tui development environment.

If you’re sold on sticking with Emacs, then learning elisp will unquestionably pay dividends, and the more you learn the more you’ll be able to do (but you don’t need to understand everything in order to do anything).

and how exactly can i improve my emacs experience if i learned elisp?

That’s the thing – it’s up to you. The ability to “scratch any itch” is what elisp give you. That doesn’t mean any given thing is easy to do (although it might be) but, to a significant extent, if you can identify a problem then implementing a solution is also a possibility.

“i’m not a programmer by any means” what do you use Emacs for? (sincere question, I know non-programers use Emacs)

It’s sort of a silly question.

To customise emacs beyond clicking around in ‘customise’ you need to write elisp. If you learn little elisp then you can only customise it using other people’s code, if you learn a lot of it then you can write an mua.

You decide where you want to be on that spectrum.

Actually learning elips itself is the reward.

Well, if you want to customise Emacs - obviously it’s worth learning. Im not quite sure where you get that idea that because its “old” then its support is somehow worse than “more popular” languages. It has great documentation - in editor too.

You can get a lot done with very basic knowledge. Much of the packages offer example configuration, and as emacs-lisp is self-documenting (through docstrings), being able to read and write basic hooks, functions and setting variables is enough for most configuration.

I personally think after that the challenge becomes emacs, not lisp. For example understanding startup, MIME-types, faces and window/frame rules is a lot to learn - and those are independent of the language

You need surprisingly little if you already have general lisp knowledge to actually be able to write your own configs. Hell, you don’t need any knowledge just work with it as if it’s some config file grammar. I started with doom and after a year or so took a step into vanilla Emacs. My Emacs config is exactly how I want it now. Don’t get me wrong it’s not life changing compared to Doom but if you have a weekend spare and you are feeling up the challenge, give it a shot.

It was for me.

After reading Paul Graham wax lyrical about lisp ( see essay Beating the Averages), I wanted to learn a lisp. Emacs is the most practical lisp in the sense that even a small amount of it can do something immediately useful (for emacs), and I wasn’t going to replace R / Python / Fortran with Common Lisp or Scheme for my scientific computing needs.

Not sure it expanded my mind like I had expected in the end. Apart from the homoiconicity and macros, most major ideas introduced by lisp has made its way into other mainstream languages.

But it’s a beautiful language and at least I know now that I’m not missing out on something huge, and that gives me piece of mind (maybe macros are huge and I’m toying with them in Julia at the moment).

In my experience, you don’t really need to know much elisp (if any) to be able to configure your editor unless you’re building your own plugin. Once you have a specific problem, you just Google and use Emacs internal docs.

That said, elisp has an interesting trait: variables are dynamic by default. It’s quite different from other languages so it may be amusing to learn more about (if you do find that interesting, check out PicoLisp)

When I want to add an automatic garage door, I don’t go on r/ElectricalEngineering and ask how rewarding learning EE can be. I decide wtf I want to have happen, then google accordingly.