• Thief_of_Crows@sh.itjust.works
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      1 year ago

      There’s no such thing as unskilled labor. I guarantee you that dude is better than you are at packing boxes. That’s known as “skill”

      • stella@lemm.ee
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        1 year ago

        Skilled labor is something that you need outside training in order to do.

        When someone is an ‘unskilled worker,’ it means they’re only eligible for positions that train them.

        • unfreeradical@lemmy.world
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          1 year ago

          Nevertheless, a worker who has been trained is a worker who has become skilled.

          A worker who has been trained on a job site is worker who has become skilled in work at the job site.

          • psud
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            1 year ago

            When one has spent half a day learning to pack boxes, then a week learning to do it quick enough, I’ll grant they have acquired a skill. Probably not a transferable skill, but definitely a skill

            It’s still unskilled work

        • mayoi@sh.itjust.works
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          1 year ago

          Name one thing that doesn’t require outside skill. Literally nothing you know in your life you learned on your own.

          • stella@lemm.ee
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            1 year ago

            I’m not saying you’re wrong, just what people intend to mean when they say unskilled labor.

                  • afraid_of_zombies@lemmy.world
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                    1 year ago

                    Citation needed. Please tell me the name of the people, the date they invented the term, the justification they offered for the term, and private letters that indicate this conspiracy.

                    Take as much time as you need to provide these four pieces of data that would back up your claim.

                • mayoi@sh.itjust.works
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                  1 year ago

                  I can’t fathom cognitive dissonance of being able to say unskilled and implying it isn’t equivalent to $0

                  • afraid_of_zombies@lemmy.world
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                    1 year ago

                    I can’t fathom

                    Well, theory of mind is a skill.

                    Fine. Maybe an analogy will help. If you say X = 2 and I say that it does not, does that mean I am saying it is equal to 3? You made an assertion, I reject your assertion, that doesn’t mean anything else. A does not imply B in this case.

                    Unskilled labor does not mean it should be done for free. No one is saying that, except you. Because that strawman is able to defeat.

              • LinkOpensChest.wav@lemmy.one
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                1 year ago

                I have a master’s degree, but I can honestly say working at Wendy’s took just as much skill as what I do now. “People” who use terms like “unskilled labor” are part of the problem. There’s no such thing as “unskilled labor.” I’m agreeing with you.

          • psud
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            1 year ago

            Packing boxes, unless you mean “outside training” to include walking and talking

            It’s unskilled in terms that any moderately competent person can do the job and become proficient at it quickly

            My skilled job required tertiary education, plus about two years on the job for a person to become good at it

      • BurnSquirrel@lemmy.world
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        1 year ago

        There is definitely such a thing as jobs that take lots of book learning and tests to get, and jobs anyone can get by applying for them. This semantic fight of “No such thing as unskilled labor” is just going to make people call it something new and politically correct, but it won’t change reality.

        • Thief_of_Crows@sh.itjust.works
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          1 year ago

          It’s not semantics, it’s just refusing to use an inaccurate name. Just because anyone can get a job doesn’t mean anyone can excel at it. Why are you suggesting we should all consent to the lie that unskilled labor exists?

        • afraid_of_zombies@lemmy.world
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          1 year ago

          Which is why everyone is an engineer these days. Guy with a mop? Sanitation engineer. Guy who sells stuff all day? Sales engineer. Help desk? No, systems engineer.

          Title inflation isnt a big deal but it is silly.

        • unfreeradical@lemmy.world
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          1 year ago

          Which are the people who are dominating culture and language, who carry the power to fulfill your prediction?

          How do such distinctions and constructs originally emerge, and why do they remain entrenched?

            • unfreeradical@lemmy.world
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              1 year ago

              Straw man attack.

              Ad-hominem appeal to motive.

              I have not advocated for a definition being imposed.

              I have encouraged critical inquiry over the emergence and entrenchment of terms and constructs.

                • unfreeradical@lemmy.world
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                  1 year ago

                  You have not been in fact particularly kind or charitable.

                  Nevertheless, please advise me over which terms I misused.

                  If you provide a correction that can be validated, then I will accept your correction.

      • afraid_of_zombies@lemmy.world
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        1 year ago

        If you can master it in a week it isn’t a skill. You are redefining the word to make it so broad it is useless to make some ideological point. Also given what I see with Amazon boxes I doubt they can in fact pack better than I can.

        • unfreeradical@lemmy.world
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          1 year ago

          You are describing someone acquiring skills over the course of a week.

          An assessment as you have given would depend on, as a basis, the general skills already prevalent within a target population.

          Also, it is questionable that someone would not continue to develop skill through practicing a task longer than a week.

          Your invocation of a judgment is essentially vacuous, as you have done with the word “master”.

          • afraid_of_zombies@lemmy.world
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            1 year ago

            Jesus who are you trying to impress talking like that? Putting shit in a box is not skilled labor in the sense being a plumber or an accountant is. Just because I can’t define the line exactly does not mean there is no line and pointing out that my reasoning isn’t perfect doesn’t make your reasoning correct.

            It is unskilled labor because words are defined by consensus.

            • unfreeradical@lemmy.world
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              1 year ago

              The line is imaginary, and division by any line is not particularly natural or useful.

              What consensus are you imagining? I cannot recall being asked to offer an opinion for any consensus.

              Who participated in constructing the consensus? What processes are generally available to challenge the entrenched consensus, or to direct the development of a new consensus?

              Which groups have supported such a consensus more strongly than others?

              • afraid_of_zombies@lemmy.world
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                1 year ago

                Bullshit lines don’t matter. You clearly act like it does. Do you eat anything randomly or do you have standards of hygiene and taste and nutrition?

                Yeah you weren’t consulted. Your whims don’t outrule billions of people who refuse to be ordered to believe that 2 + 2 = 5.

                Still goalposting moving, which is also unskilled labor.

                • unfreeradical@lemmy.world
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                  1 year ago

                  You asserted a consensus had been formed.

                  Who participated in forming the consensus?

                  Did you participate? Are you benefiting from such a consensus? Would you be harmed by its being replaced?

                  Why is your tone so protective and forceful?

                  • psud
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                    1 year ago

                    Look at the votes on this comment tree. Clearly there is a consensus, clearly Amazon packers are on the “unskilled” side of the line