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This is definitely a liberal take. I don’t agree with those who didn’t vote for Kamala, but removing responsibility from people running her campaign when there are obvious glaring issues such as retracting all populist messaging and appealing to non-existent right wingers voting against Trump was a real stinker to say the least. It’s okay to blame politicians who didn’t win for not winning.
100%
Non-contributing rage bait. The Democrats were wrong. The Democrats still are wrong. And the Democratic presidential candidate was infinitely better than her opposition.
Nuance motherfucker do you speak it.
Nuance motherfucker do you speak it.
“If they dislike my party, they must support the other party, nothing else exists, right?”
In a two party system, especially when there’s no clear “I don’t like either” option then yes, nothing else exists. When you don’t vote you’re not saying “I don’t like either party” you’re saying “I don’t care which party wins”. If you don’t care which party wins then you’re in support of both parties.
Yes but in discussing politics we are not relegated to the same limitations we have in voting. Thus there is no contradiction between voting down-ballot Democrat, then going home and tweeting “I hate Dick Cheney and the Democrats.”
OP makes a clownish commentary on this. If someone did not vote blue who probably should have, shame on them, but the Democrats are still wrong.
Yes, political discussions are not as limited in options as voting and there absolutely should be a political discussion about the Democratic party. They suck, have sucked and will continue to suck, unless they change.
And I agree that there’s no contradiction. I’d even go as far as to say there was no contradiction in voting for Harris and then tweeting “the democratic candidate sucks”, because you have to vote for someone and Trump (clearly) was the worse option.
My point was rather that if you dislike a party and you don’t vote for them then you are in support of the other party, even if you don’t vote at all. The nuances get kicked out when it comes to voting.
ok fair but not relevant to my own point post it somewhere relevant next time if you want me to support lol
My point was rather that if you dislike a party and you don’t vote for them then you are in support of the other party, even if you don’t vote at all
And that is a dog shit point. An easy example: California. Nobody who didn’t vote in CA supported Trump by not voting, unless you don’t know how elections work
Stop trying to blame those not at fault you weird authoritarian
Just because the electoral college is a stupid thing doesn’t mean I’m not right. Had it been a popular vote those non-votes would’ve mattered.
Ever heard of third parties? I’ve voted Green Party since I could vote. There is the Libertarian, Reform, Constitutional, and several other parties.
Yeah, they’re the non-vote parties. FPTP voting always devolves down to 2 parties, see Duverger’s Law. Even if by some miracle a 3rd party wins (and continues winning) they will eventually kick one of the previous 2 parties out and take their place as the new party in the 2 party system. In practice if my memory doesn’t fail me voting 3rd party hasn’t mattered for over a century because the 2 main parties are so entrenched, so voting for 3rd party is more or less throwing away your vote.
“If you dislike pancakes that must mean you LOOOOVE waffles right?”
No bitch thats a brand new sentence wtf is you talking about.
This is a problem with decision hierarchies. Usual election - if both parties have policies I can’t support, then I vote for 3rd party knowing it’s a protest vote.
HOWEVER : if the consequences of the election mean that a dictator and malignantly evil person (and their cronies) may get into power then the FIRST consideration MUST be that he doesn’t get into power. So you vote for the most likely way that the calamity can be stopped.
It’s shit, believe me, I know, but them’s the breaks. The problem has been that people have treated this as ‘election as usual’. The fact that sane people are still arguing over this is concerning.
!!A malignantly evil dictator has overtaken your government and is overtaking your country. You need to work together with the other sane people in order to stop this calamity.!!
Yeah that is the level of self awareness that created this bullshit. Fuck the Democrats. To be clear I voted for Harris but t Still think the Democrats suck
Imagine posting this meme when just today the DNC have announced their “new” leadership and it’s just the same as the old leadership, and they’ve done absolutely nothing to push back against Trump this whole time.
Just like they would have done nothing when Trumpists did a violent coup if the voting results were different.
Liberals only differ from fascists in degree, not the kind of ideology they follow.
Imagine posting this meme when just today the DNC have announced their “new” leadership and it’s just the same as the old leadership, and they’ve done absolutely nothing to push back against Trump this whole time.
“But maybe next DNC chair you’ll get a progressive! Vote for us and we’ll give you what you want next time.”
don’t vote and you never have to vote again.
Degree of minorities murdered matters.
they’ve done absolutely nothing to push back against Trump this whole time.
What do you mean? Didn’t you see their tiny signs last night? That’ll sure show him!
I think they were even instructed to be “quiet”. And they all just fucking fell in line.
See you might have voted for Harris but people who go online and read comments like “Fuck the Democrats” and “Democrats are Centrists” didn’t. People didn’t vote for Harris because of shit like your comment.
People didn’t vote for Harris because her campaign sucked ass, it’s her and her staff who failed to convince people to vote for her, not people who voiced their dissatisfaction with her proposed policy. They need to do better, and if they do, then people excercising their freedom of speech on the internet won’t sway votes away from the party. Idea that people shouldn’t be allowed to complain about the genocide because it voices loudly the dissatisfaction over the party actions and that may lead to lower voter turnout is flawed to it’s core. Those comments are the symptom of the problem, the sign that there is something wrong with the way they directed the campaign, not the source of it. You will get nowhere by silencing the dissidents, you need to take away their reasons to complain, not their means. Until Dems learn this lesson, they won’t win elections again, not with the antiestabilishment vibes and lack of trust towards the government that are prevailent im USA. Not only this messaging of censure won’t work, it will only piss off the electorate and alienate them further. Before the elections I have assumed that this campaign to shame people into voting was a psy op, but it seems like it’s actually their position on the matter, which definitely makes me think they’re controlled opposition at this point. They can’t actually think this kind of messaging helps them in any way, right? This arrogant approach is specifically why Republican electorate hates them. If they want to win, like, ever, they need to work on that.
I’m sorry their message didn’t vibe with you but the Harris policy stances were all on point, minus that shit Walz had to say about Israeli borders. But the vast majority of Americans seemed unaware of the policy stances being on point because of the constant whinging of people online about how they don’t trust her.
Here is an idea, buy Twitter, Meta, Google, WaPo, and TikTok and start propagandizing like the GOP had on their side. She’d probably win by 20 Mil minimum. That’s how fucking easy it is to trick the USA, not even any politics involved, just fuck with the kid’s vibe feeds and watch them destroy themselves. Even talking with you lowers my faith in humanity.
I voted for those assholes up and down. They still suck.
I voted for Kamala. My parents and grandparents did as well. I do not feel that the democrats were/are doing jack shit to court new voters. The party itself expects to just be the status quo and have people vote for it. Whether people want to admit it or not, the point of being a progressive party is to be… how do I put this… PROGRESSIVE.
Oh yeah, make no mistake, the Dems are fucked.
It’s just that in '24 we had an option between “continue having a flawed democracy” and “put a literal fascist in power”, and a lot of us are still sore over folks who insisted that choosing the latter was some form of leftism. They weren’t a major force in the general electorate, but here on Lemmy, they were certainly loud, so a lot of bad feeling remains.
The only argument for voting trump while thinking “left” that I can think of, is that all that anger and chaos leads to a big reform of the political landscape where there is a way for a more social system in the end
But I’d consider that an extremely risky move…
That’s literally the accelerationist/anti-electoralist religious doctrine. And I say “religious doctrine” because they keep insisting that people will rise up if they assist in the sacrifice of enough LGBTQ+, POC, and other vulnerable people, despite there being absolutely no evidence in history of that ever occurring, even under brutal totalitarian dynasties that lasted hundreds of years.
But I’d consider that an extremely risky move…
So we all get to discover in real time!
True that 😂
You clearly don’t understand leftist thought. Voting for a cop, a warmonger and a complicit child-kidnapper is incompatible with many leftists’ beliefs and values. Continued aversion to actually listening to criticisms of the Dems and DNC from the left is why your beloved party is crashing and burning.
You clearly don’t understand leftist thought.
No, I absolutely do. They preferred the fascist to working with the dreaded ‘shitlibs’, just like Thalmann.
Nazi punks fuck off.
Call me a Nazi all you like, it doesn’t make me a Nazi. In fact, you moralists should take that log out of your eye and actually look at the world your status-quoism has generated
Hey, cool, you have ADHD too? We can go to RFK’s concentration camps together. I’m sure our Healing Through Labor™ will be successful.
Ooooh! Count me in as a qualifying candidate. I’ll drop my Vyvanse off in the bins outside the gates and partake in the Healing Through Labor™ right beside you, my Brother In- wait… what was I just saying?
Can’t believe our only hope for mitigation of the damage is that the administration is so incompetent that they trick over their own dicks in the process of trying all of their horrors.
It’s not going to be pretty either way.
Call me a Nazi all you like, it doesn’t make me a Nazi.
No? You just welcomed in fascism because it pleased your prejudices and preconceptions. Sounds pretty indistinguishable from most Nazis to me.
In fact, you moralists should take that log out of your eye and actually look at the world your status-quoism has generated
“Wow, the world is bad. We should make it worse.”
Brilliant plan. Millions of LGBT Americans and tens of millions of Ukrainians thank you for your ardent support of fascists taking power. I’m sure those dying for lack of supplies from USAID are thrilled as well, as well as poor Americans who can’t afford the massive increases in costs of living and are already living paycheck-to-paycheck, and the crackdown on unions.
What a brave leftist world you’ve helped create. Maybe if you lick fascist boots a little more, it’ll become even better.
I also find it amusing that I’m getting called a ‘moralist’ because I advocated the utilitarian option. What fucking insanity.
Millions of LGBT Americans
You’re talking to one, and no, the Democrats have backstabbed us at every opportunity. Especially at trans issues, which they love to capitulate on as a bargaining chip for getting their capitalist donors more money.
Maybe if you lick fascist boots a little more, it’ll become even better.
If you walk outside and throw a brick in the face of a cop, you can talk to me about what it means to be a bootlicker.
I also find it amusing that I’m getting called a ‘moralist’ because I advocated the utilitarian option.
You advocate for action based upon a spook? Sorry, that makes you a moralist. You decided that “maximizing utility” was the moral choice, and that again makes you a moralist. Perhaps you should write a sternly worded lever-pulling manifesto to send to your congressman?
You’re talking to one, and no, the Democrats have backstabbed us at every opportunity. Especially at trans issues, which they love to capitulate on as a bargaining chip for getting their capitalist donors more money.
Would you like to remind me about the state of LGBT rights in this country in 2024 compared to 1990?
Soaking in fascist circles seems to sap your connection to reality.
If you walk outside and throw a brick in the face of a cop, you can talk to me about what it means to be a bootlicker.
lmao, you ushered in fascism, bro, and you’re sitting here justifying it besides. Saying “You aren’t attacking enough cops!” to others isn’t going to cure you of your bootlicking position.
You advocate for action based upon a spook?
Jesus fucking Christ.
Sorry, that makes you a moralist. You decided that “maximizing utility” was the moral choice, and that again makes you a moralist.
Jesus. Fucking. Christ.
Very, very well put. I voted for Kamala as well, and this is what I’m trying to scream from the rooftops. The democrats seem to see the current populist moment as an excuse to phone it in. It keeps blowing up in the face, and they keep saying “oh well, I guess we need to move right / let the voters learn their lesson”
The party itself expects to just be the status quo and have people vote for it.
When the alternative was Trump and Project 2025, that’s exactly what most should have voted for.
But stopping DEI was more important than Social Security for the majority of voters
Peope can’t afford their bills and the Democrats were out there saying the economy is stronger than ever. They had no intention of helping people and you are shocked that people didn’t go out to vote. If it’s damned if you do, damned if you don’t, most people will chose the latter
It was stronger than under Trump. Everyone forgot they had to fight for toilet paper under Trump.
Only an absolute moron would believe that the economy was better in 2024 than in 2019 for your average person. You can’t blame the poor economy on Biden, but you can absolutely blame the DNC for not spputing off reforms to help people.
You are one of those who forgot how bad it was. So many millions were in danger of eviction that moratoriums had to be passed.
Exactly. Moratoriums were passed. Absolutely nothing was done the past 2 years as prices for everything skyrocketed. People remember that sort of thing. Literally the forst thing Biden did was break his promise and give out stimulus checks that were nowhere near what he campaigned on.
He was able to bring inflation down, but the impacts were felt far and wide. As for stimulus checks those were written and voted on by Congress. Congress was Republican during Bidens presidency. He did sign executive orders to speed up the dispersal and to expand SNAP to try to help families. But if the people who fund the stimulus check (Congress) don’t fund it, there is nothing to give out.
The economy recovered such that people were able to pay their rent despite the increases. Moratoriums ended yet mass evictions didn’t happen. People were doing far better than under Trump.
They should at least have voted third party… I think many people should have voted third party… Why do so few people vote third party?
If they are too apathetic to vote for dems, they certainly won’t go out of their way to make a statement and vote third party.
Which kinda defeats the purpose of a vote in my opinion 😅
because voting third party is useless and only helps trump to win since you’re wasting your vote
Still better than not voting at all. Would not give the same signal if republicans win with 40% of votes VS winning with more than 50% of votes.
Additionally, if the regular voting base for third parties grows, it exponentially makes more sense voting third party.
It is like driving backwards away from a really near wall where you parked sideways against it: you have to get just a bit closer to the wall with your nose, but as soon as the tail starts to get away from the wall, the distance grows exponentially faster over time.I think best for US would be alternative conservative parties besides republicans.
In a first past the post voting system like america has, third parties will never get a significant amount of votes. Even if they would get like 5%, which would be a lot for a third party (10 times the amount of the green party in 2024), it would make no difference whatsoever on the election outcome. Sure the winning party might have a smaller margin on the popular vote, but that’s totally irrelevant since you can win the election without a majority on the popular vote anyway.
Then 5% of the population has wasted their vote, and if they’re smart they won’t repeat that mistake by the next election and make their vote actually matter. I don’t think the exponential thing works because people who voted third party will probably regret their decision as it leads to a win for the greater evil party.
I agree that if you do not live in a swing state, your vote doesn’t really matter anyways and voting third party might make sense. However in general, voting a third party only makes sense when at least 1/3 of the population does the same, which is never gonna happen.
The only way for America to get out of this two party competition, is to change the voting system and make it actually proportional like a real democracy. Obviously neither of the parties will ever change the system because it benefits them, so that change might require some significant events to happen…
Well, you are right 😌 I’m just too optimistic, but that is a personal trait that I know I have 😸
I could be wrong about this: But I increasingly feel that the major issue for most of these people was economic instability - not making enough to make ends meet. But, out of a feeling of humiliation around saying “im poor” the message instead targets points of blame; either to potentially spare more dollars for themselves, or just genuinely to lash out at a world that’s succeeding without them.
Doesn’t make the approach of their message in any way valid or okay. I’m just explaining that they needed an answer to their struggles. Trump gave them an elaborate lie about it, which to them was better than nothing.
Dems didn’t need new voters. They just needed the same folks that voted for Biden in 2020 to show up in 2024.
Too bad they were too racist and sexist to vote for a black woman.
Lot of those people who voted in 2020 weren’t Democratic voters. They voted for the Democrats that one time and then the Democrats failed to retain them. That’s on the Democrats. I don’t know how many times people can say it. It’s a candidate and the party’s job to earn people’s votes. Earn them. There is literally no other way to do it. Democrats refuse to do that that’s why they lose.
Here I thought that 4 years of competent leadership, a booming economy, and some significant legislative victories would earn votes.
Silly me. Clearly the voting populous wanted extreme leftist policies. Explains why Trump won.
What world are you living in where you think the economy of the last 4 years has been booming? Every indicator that isn’t the Dow Jones indicates that the economy has been absolutely fucked for the last 4 years.
the point of being a progressive party is to be… how do I put this… PROGRESSIVE.
Their policies are progressive. They have a voting history proving they vote progressively. Joe Biden was an EXTREMELY progressive president.
Yeah, the Dems should advertise better. But Americans should also not be braindead stupid assholes and do some goddamn homework.
We had two options. A fascist regime or something 1 trillion times better. We shit the bed and went with fascism. That’s not the Democrat’s fault. That’s dipshit American’s fault.
Yeah their policies are so progressive that the dick Chaney family endorsed them. Biden was so progressive that as soon as the supreme court repealed Roe v. Wade, he made an EO to protect the rights of women. Oh and of course how can we forget that he made college and vocational schooling free for everyone, and secured the rights of trans Americans to literally just fucking exist.
oh wait. no wait he didn’t do any of that. in fact I think he might’ve just held up the status quo of the time.
“NO NO, IT’S THE DEMOCRATS WHO ARE WRONG”
I heard that’s the reason people picked Guaranteed Fascism from the BINARY CHOICE already from the graphic.
-
They ought to be progressive!
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They’re totally progressive! It’s wonderful! ❤️🇺🇲
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Um no they’re not and here’s why.
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Well ya only have one choice so shut up!
— why we lost
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Yeah their policies are so progressive that the dick Chaney family endorsed them.
Yeah, I’m sure it had nothing to do with Liz Cheney being outed by the Republican party for showing opposition to their cult leader. I’m also sure it had nothing to do with the Cheney family recognizing their party had been taken over by said cult leader and his cult and being pretty upset about the threat that poses the country. I’m sure the Cheney family only endorsed Democrats because they genuinely believe in progressive policies. Lol.
Biden was so progressive that as soon as the supreme court repealed Roe v. Wade, he made an EO to protect the rights of women.
HE LITERALLY DID. Trump undid them as soon as he became president because LEGISLATING VIA EO’S IS FUCKING STUPID. The only way to make something stick is via legislating through Congress, and that requires A LOT more sway than Biden and Democrats had in this divisive ass country.
Oh and of course how can we forget that he made college and vocational schooling free for everyone
Nope, but he forgave student loans for a shit ton of people despite Republican AND Supreme Court obstruction at every turn.
You need to understand that YOU ARE PART OF THE PROBLEM. You clearly have ZERO clue what you’re talking about, and yet here you are, spreading misinformation on the internet. And, judging by your upvotes, people are taking your misinformation at face value, thus perpetuating the spread of misinformation, leading us to where we are now.
Do your homework before you post, or don’t post.
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Damn. Kudos to you for taking the time to actually educate the dumbos on Lemmy. I’ve long since given up and just get my jollies posting inflammatory memes and silently giggling as they all flip out.
“I do not feel that the democrats were/are doing jack shit to court new voters.”
This sentence structure obfuscates your meaning.
they were not doing Anything and are still not doing Anything.
hope that clears it up
they were not doing Anything
Their voting history and Biden’s accomplishments disagree with that statement.
are still not doing Anything.
They do not control either house of Congress, the presidency, or the Supreme Court. Voters made sure of that.
Neither did the GOP during Obama’s presidency. They still managed to obstruct and block anything of value. Curious isn’t it.
What’s curious is your lack of understanding of how our government works.
You’re completely ignoring the fact that Republicans were able to obstruct because they gained House, and then Senate, majority during Obama’s terms. Democrats do not have majority in either chamber of Congress right now. So your comment is senseless.
Actually, I guess you’re not ignoring. You’re simply unaware, because you don’t know how things work. And yet you’re being upvoted by others who also don’t know how things work.
EDIT: 6 downvotes as of right now and not a single one of them had the balls or brains to counter what I said. In other words, 6 individuals ignorant of how our government works and completely fine with that. Holy fuck, we really need mandatory civics classes in our schools. So many people with no clue how things work. I guess that’s why a felon rapist traitor is our president.
They were able to water down the ACA into near uselessness without any majority. At the start it was a Republican vision of healthcare, and they still watered it down because brown man bad. I do understand that they gained power in the midterms which allowed them to do even more obstruction but to claim that Democrats could have just done ANYTHING they wanted because they had the 3 branches is patently false. And yet… Here we are. Dems are largely rolling over and letting the GOP run roughshod over the gov. Not utilizing the abomination of the filibuster for any good, still confirming cabinet members, still treating with traitor and conmen.
For those keeping score, this isn’t my sockpuppet account. But I feel we could be drinking buddies until we argued about my programming style or something; then it’s war.
When your opponent is everything Mr Trump is, one would think
- economy slowly improving from covid
- protect human rights
- hold the line for the Supreme Court
- keep democracy safe
- … so we can at least talk about other stuff
would be enough. That was enough. It’s a no-brainer IN A BINARY CHOICE.
We live in a post-truth society. Let that really sink in for a moment. Take it literally and think what that means. With modern social media, we have unleashed technology we were not remotely prepared for.
Broadcasts from the future:
Wednesday, November 8, 2028: The democrats, running a Mike Pence and Mitt Romney ticket, have just lost to the a copy of Grok 3 trained on the transcripts of all of Donald Trump’s, uh, speeches, and its running mate, Eye Fuckskulls, the modern leader of the Aryan Brotherhood. After having a completely fair primary in which their super delegates all reported that they would vote for Pence on day one, and all the other candidates, each having won one or two states, dropped out and pledged their votes to Pence after he won the absolutely critical state of New Hampshire, the democrats were sure of their chances with this centrist ticket. Many democrats expressed befuddlement that they lost ground in every demographic, although some strategists see a glimmer of hope in that they managed to pick up sixteen disaffected Republican voters nationwide. Some voters seemed to think that the democrats didn’t make a case for why they should vote for Pence and Romney instead of Grok/Fuckskulls, but democrats disagree. “It’s hard to know for sure, but my guess is that it’s time to move past unpopular far left policies like only executing 100 detained immigrants a day, annexing only half of Canada, and limiting involuntary Tesla Factory labor to only the poorest Americans” said one democratic strategist.
“Stupid fucking leftists, progressives, and non-voters, Pence/Romney ‘Atheist Genocide But We’ll Say Sorry While Doing It 2028’ was the best chance we had at restoring the republic, the damage that Grok and Fuckskulls will do is immeasurable. I guess they’re just going to have to learn to vote blue no matter who in 2032!” Yelled another exasperated democrat on the TrumpNet ™, America’s isolated and heavily censored internet network.
I really enjoyed reading this, thank you for the satirical sci-fi of the bullshit we’re stuck with of today.
Both can be true you know
We were going to eventually get a president that’s doing what Trump is doing assuming we failed to organize. I just wanted more time to organize in the hopes that we could avoid all the pain and suffering that a president like Trump will cause.
If only there was an organization, like, a big, established political party, that’s been around for a really long time that could have done something, rather than people trying to organize last minute.
Are you talking about the Democrats? They weren’t going to do anything. They rely on wealthy donors. The same wealthy donors that like what Trump is doing.
It is and always has been class warfare.
Did the DNC’s strategy work? No? Then the Democrats were wrong.
It’s their job to convince voters to vote for them. And if they won’t take responsibility for failing at their job, then they’re on course to do the exact same thing in 2028 and get the exact same results.
Exactly. You know what I would like to see? I would like to see the Democratic Party act like parties due in many countries. The norm internationally is that if you are running a party, and that party loses catastrophically, that it is your moral responsibility to give up the reigns of that party. You had your chance. It didn’t work. There are plenty of people out there with good ideas. Your opinions will still be welcome. Or, for a corporate example, if you’re a CEO, and you crash the company’s stock, you’re usually going to lose your job.
Anyone in a top-20 leadership position of Democrats in 2024 should simply be done with running things. They can’t run as candidates. They can’t serve party leadership roles. They can’t serve on party committees. They can only participate as a regular party member.
That’s how the party should be run. One strike and you’re out. Let the strong survive. We want the party to be a god-damned thunderdome.
It’s their job to convince voters to vote for them
Everytime this topic comes up it reminds me of incels whining no women wants them…
They don’t want to change anything, they don’t want to compromise, they want a participation trophy for just existing. What’s insane is that’s been the strategy for the last three presidential elections.
And if they won’t take responsibility for failing at their job, then they’re on course to do the exact same thing in 2028 and get the exact same results.
The new DNC chair has been very vocal about what the problem is, how to fix, and is already running the same playbook that solidified his home state blue.
The DNC is basically the chair, and we just got a much better chair than we’ve had in decades.
That’s encouraging to hear.
Can you share any links about the strategy changes you think will help?
“We’re calling it the ‘Organize Everywhere’ tour,” Martin told ABC13. “It’s a simple premise that if we’re going to win throughout this country and get back into power, we have to organize everywhere. We’re visiting red states, purple states, and blue states on this tour. And Texas really is the future of the Democratic Party. This is such a critical battleground state as we move forward in the 2026 elections – of course, the 28 election cycle and beyond.”
But you don’t have to go on hypotheticals, he has a long history in Minnesota, and supporting candidates voters want translated to wins.
It’s not even that overtly progressive, he just knows it’s easiest to win if voters already like the candidate and policy. And voters like charismatic candidates with progressive policy stances.
It’s their job to convince voters to vote for them.
And it’s the voters DUTY to inform themselves responsibly and make the best choice for the welfare of their nation. American voters failed to do so.
We can’t do anything about that, wagging your finger at voters will not accomplish anything. But we CAN do something about the party itself, the candidate, and the campaign strategy.
Fixating on things we can’t change is a way to deflect from having actual productive conversations about things that we can change. It’s a way for the DNC to avoid taking responsibility.
We can’t do anything about that, wagging your finger at voters will not accomplish anything.
If we can’t do anything about American voters being complacent and lazy and not doing their civic duty responsibly, then we have, and will continue to have, way bigger problems than a party not being good at promoting themselves. And, oh look, we are.
We can’t just keep ignoring the source of our problem. People HAVE to get responsibly engaged in politics if we want out of this situation. Otherwise, even if Dems get better at messaging, we’ll just slingshot back to where we are now if they stop being good at it again.
Apparently it’s going to take a lot of pain and suffering for Americans to become more responsible voters. If it’s even possible at this point.
the way to compell voters is through education, livable wages, and a prosperous life. it is an inherent catch 22.
you cannot blame a victim of propaganda that they were propagandised. especially if they are a dumb fuck
It is a candidate’s job to convince voters to vote for them. That is what campaigning is. Sitting here and wagging your finger, on the other hand, is not campaigning.
We cannot tie the entire US electorate down and force them to “be more responsible”. That is not a useful or productive way to look at the problem. If that is all you fixate on, you have no actionable solution out of it.
But what we can do is run better candidates with a better campaign, that will inspire voters to want to vote for them. That is how it works, that has always been how it works, and if we ignore that, we will lose in 2028.
The point I am making here is that we need to talk about things we can actually do something about, instead of shutting down the conversation by deflecting to things we cannot do anything about.
Your “we” here is weird to me.
Most of us aren’t party executives but most of us are voters, with friends and family who are voters.
What I say on lemmy is never read by the DNC, but is read by voters.
Claiming that I can’t do anything about what voters do whilst I can do something about the Democratic leadership is so very very inaccurate.
The Democrats are made of people. If you believe people can’t change, we’re fucked anyway. Thankfully, I believe you’re wrong.
the DNC is made of lobby money full stop.
In other words, it’s the voter’s duty to perform a communist revolution. How well are you personally performing your duty, comrade?
Did the DNC’s strategy work? No? Then the Democrats were wrong.
The biggest flaw in the DNC strategy, it appears, is not appearing as a ‘maybe rich’ felony rapist traitor facing multiple election tampering and secrets cases, telling some bullshit story about magical prosperity for all.
That’s their flaw.
The biggest flaw is not being inspiring. Like yes, Trump told a bullshit story, but at least he told a story, and that’s what the DNC didn’t do.
Look at Obama in 2008 and 2012. He had an uplifting slogan of hope and change, and he focused his platform around a popular and easily-understood issue, healthcare reform. That’s how to run a good campaign, we’ve done it before, we can do it again. We don’t have to be blue fascists, we just need to be appealing.
Did the DNC’s strategy work? No? Then the Democrats were wrong.
So you’re saying that no matter what happens, it’s never my fault. Yay!
(/s)
The voters faced a trolly problem. While Trump was busy tying more and more people to the track, the Democrats left a few on the track, and the voters decided that they couldn’t stomach the choice, so they sat it out. And now we get this.
The Democrats have blood on their hands, sure, but so does every person who didn’t vote yet bemoans the Trump presidency.
If you think the trolley problem has an obvious solution, you do not understand the trolley problem.
As an outsider, I think you’re not on the side of the meme that you think you’re on.
If not voting for Trump wasn’t enough for Harris to win, she sure didn’t act like it. “Nothing to change” from the policies of the guy who was forced to step down wasn’t what the people wanted to hear.
I mean he was asked to step down because of the worry that his mental faculties, not due to his policies. Remember, it was right after his first debate with Trump. The following debate, Kamala roasted Trump.
Yeah, except for the whole genocide thing. But mostly college kids protested that. You can just beat up those.
Argument falls apart when she was still the lesser of the two in the regard
Regardless of the actual outcome, I assume that most people who didn’t vote for her didn’t intend on helping Trump. Otherwise, they would have voted for him.
You want people to vote for you, it’s not enough to simply not vote for the other guy.
“Nothing to change” from the policies of the guy who was forced to step down wasn’t what the people wanted to hear.
This has been explained. Answering anything else was a PR trap.
“Democrats are not doing enough to encourage people to vote for Democrats.” is a warning, not a threat.
People who make and post memes like this seem to think that the people complaining about conservative Democrats and pointing out problems in the party are not voting for Democrats. I think they largely wrong about that. We are voting for all Democrats all the time, but warning you that your messaging sucks and you are not going to get the turnout you need. It is not our fault we were correct.
Exactly. “Back the blue no matter who” is great and dandy in the months between primaries and the election, but at any other time it’s a straight-up nonsense phrase. We’re now well into the “Who’ll be the new blue?” stage, and the last thing we need is to let some ancient, entitled, dem politician shuffle in and take “their turn” and for democrats to just go with it again. Now’s the time to build a movement against the dnc establishment and for the progressive wing.
I also don’t really see the point in the meme and ones like it. The election already happened, and whether you personally blame voters or the dnc, either way it’s the dnc’s problem to fix or they’re gonna go extinct.
The point is we failed to promote the DNC in those months when it actually mattered and millions of people who voted for the party before stayed home instead. We need to promote the DNC, not just shit on them. We need to convince people to vote for those fucking mummies and those tech and science illiterate dolts because the alternative is worse and we need to scream that from the mountaintops “The DNC will protect you. The DNC will enrich your lives. Voting against the DNC is self-harm. The GOP wants DEATH for Profits.”
After the primaries yes, we should do all of that. And though it sounds like I’m taking a shit on the dnc (well tbh I kinda am), the way I see it they’re in serious need of some constructive criticism, because ironically for a “democratic” party they’re incredibly out of touch with their voters, proved by a good portion of them not even showing up for them the last major election. Now is the perfect time to work on the dnc.
The DNC will protect you. The DNC will enrich your lives
See this might be marginally true, certainly more true of the dnc than the gop, but that’s a low bar and there’s so much room for improvement. A lot of Dems are transparently in the pockets of the wealthy, and many protections are lip-service at best. I’ve even read articles recently about a few dem politicians walking back their pro-trans-rights positions. If now was post-primary, I’d be hold my breath ticked off that the lesser evil chose to be a little more evil at the last second, but now is the time to clean up the mess and build a more popular and representative dnc before the next major election. They can start by taking a sloganeering class
Wrong! ANY criticism of the party means you’re a secret maga Russian plant. The democrats are perfect and don’t need to improve in any way!
/s
I mean, you certainly argue like a MAGA.
You’re not promoting the party, it doesn’t matter how much you vote for them if you actively dissuade others from doing the same.
People who make and post memes like this seem to think that the people complaining about conservative Democrats and pointing out problems in the party are not voting for Democrats. I think they largely wrong about that. We are voting for all Democrats all the time, but warning you that your messaging sucks and you are not going to get the turnout you need. It is not our fault we were correct.
This is true in the general population, but I just feel the need to point out that folks who explicitly weren’t voting for Dems, as well as folks who were indistinguishable from MAGA talking points, were very prominent on Lemmy, which is part of the reason why you see a lot of this soreness still.
It is not our fault we were correct.
No. It’s your fault you’re not doing anything about it.
Create a community for every state and win the midterms (where applicable). Start there.
We are trying. I volunteer for campaigns and knock on doors for progressive candidates. And they get attacked by the kind of democrats who take most of their campaign contributions from property developers and car dealerships.
If you are voting for the establishment and attacking anybody who brings up valid criticisms, YOU are not doing anything about it.
Lemmy tradition: assuming everyone else is a keyboard warrior with no direct action.
The whole genocide joe Gaza bullshit proves this wrong. There were plenty of ‘protest’ votes this round. But their protest issues were stupid because trump had worse direction on all of them but for whatever reason that was ignored and everyone focused on Harris and Biden. As if trump wasn’t just waiting to glass the whole place and turn it into a resort or golf course already.
for whatever reason that was ignored and everyone focused on Harris and Biden.
It’s because Democrats have always been held to higher standards. Because we expect nothing from Republicans, because Republicans never deliver. Ever. So now all our expectations rest on Democrats and when you place all your expectations on one thing, it will always fail to live up.
So Democrats have to be flawless while Republicans get to literally be lawless.
Pretty stupid country we’ve got here. Signing our democracy away because one party can’t be perfect.
Democrats have to be flawless
They really don’t and the fact that you don’t see that is why the blindness of the dems lead to their failure.
Man being anti-genicide isn’t the bar for flawless buddy. The bar is way higher than that. Flawless is not what you use to describe something that everyone should be except fucking war criminals.
If a Republican is moderate on abortion or refuses to kiss the ring, they label him a Republican In Name Only (RINO) and he loses his primary.
The democrats were wrong, they fucking lost!
The Party cannot fail, it can only be failed.
I’ve been voting blue no matter who for 25 years and it didn’t stop this shit
40 years and it’s worse.
Same.
And I’ll keep voting blue no matter who.
BECAUSE LOOK AT THE ALTERNATIVE.
Same.
And I’ll hate it every time and expect nothing in return.
Elections are a popularity contest with weird rules more than anything…
But the DNC kept trying to force uncharismatic candidates with conservative policy down voters throats, and stole funds from state parties to focus on that costing us down ballot races making losing have even more consequences.
They haven’t just been putting all our eggs in one basket.
They put it in the basket of a 20 year old shitty child’s bike and then put Biden on and pushed him into the interstate.
Voter can’t fail a party, but Dems have been failing their voters for decades.
I’m optimistic Martin will change that, enough to give him a fair shot and not just a month.
Dems have absolutely been failing to be an effective political party, but good lord I’d rather have the milquetoast incompetency on democratic control of the government than this abaolute shitshow that Republicans have been running for the last… God it’s only been a month and a half since the inauguration.
Milquetoast incompetence makes them lose elections.
Them losing elections allows republicans to have a shit show.
Then the Dems get a modicum of power and do milquetoast incompetence again, and the cycle repeats.
It’s been this way my entire life.
It’s been this way my entire life.
That’s because Americans are stupid/hateful, not because the Democrat party is particularly bad.
The democratic party’s first job is to win elections.
They are very very bad at that.
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And American voter’s first job is to responsibly inform themselves so they can make informed decisions come election time.
The Democrat party’s voting history is there for anyone to peruse through. I’ll save you the trouble and inform you that it is FULL of votes in favor of the lower/middle classes.
If the Democrat party fails to advertise themselves effectively, that voting history is still there, waiting for non-lazy Americans to inform themselves with. If Americans choose not to do that, then they are failing at their civic duty as citizens in a democracy. And now our democracy is in serious jeopardy because of their laziness.
You win elections with the electorate you have, not the electorate you want.
Clearly people are not responsibly informed and do not make informed decisions. Democrats need to account for the fact that most Americans are idiots if they want to control anything except a few states and cities.
There are too few non-lazy Americans for them to rely on them for victory.
Voter can’t fail a party
Nope, but they can sure fail their country. And did.
I’m an adult, so I’ll take an uncharismatic candidate over a traitor felon rapist who deconstructs our federal government, destroys our allegiances, fucks up our economy, and bends the knee to Russia.
But I accept that a LOT of Americans are simply children trapped in adult bodies.
I’m an adult, so I’ll take an uncharismatic candidate over a traitor felon rapist
Great.
But like a whole shit ton of people tried to warn for the last year now, Biden/Kamala we’re enough to beat trump.
We’ll need all the voters again, we won’t need anyone that was involved in either of their campaigns though. So why shit on the literal tens of millions we need in defense of less than an airplane’s worth of people who hightailed it back to their mansions?
You get that, right? We don’t have to run uncharismatic conservative candidates to beat trump, it’s literally the worst option we have
We can just run a charismatic candidate with a progressive campaign promise like we did with Obama. Did you forget that?
So why shit on the literal tens of millions we need in defense of less than an airplane’s worth of people who hightailed it back to their mansions?
You answered your own question.
That airplane’s worth of people come and go. They won’t be relevant next time around.
The tens of millions of people that failed to do their civic duty and inform themselves responsibly, waiting around instead for a party to court them until they felt appeased, will still be there, not doing their civic duty next time around.
And that is why the fault rests on American voters, not politicians that come and go.
So you think insulting them and badgering them that they shouldn’t have a single standard then letter by name…
You…
You think this is the most effective move to get them back in the party?
You don’t even kind of think what would be most effective is explaining to people how the DNC works and what the new chair is like would work better?
Cuz like, I just have a bachelor’s in psychology, so I would absolutely love to hear what I’m missing where you think the best way to recruit people in the fight against fascism is yelling insults.
If you want to help, actually want to help, can you do what will actually work and not work against the party?
I know the PUMA people are still around and bitter from 08, this is starting to feel like that. I tend to just block those people tho so I can concentrate on what translates to Dem gains in the federal government
The democrats objectively were wrong.
They lost the election.
That’s the only measure of right or wrong that actually matters.
They literally had only one job and they fucked it up again.
They literally had only one job and they fucked it up again.
American voters had one job. To responsibly inform themselves and make the best choice for the welfare of their nation. They failed to do so, again.
We can’t control the American voters so complaining about them doesn’t actually accomplish anything.
We can, however, change the Democratic party to better align with the voters.
That should be everyone’s focus.
Your comment is both reasonable and reflective.
The DNC bots have came to lemmy. Like on reddit how they post some BS blaming others for not supporting a candidate that didn’t represent them in the primary and likely wouldn’t have in their office. Then they downvote reasonable criticism to guide the conversation to make it seem like their opinion is the only correct one.
blaming others for not supporting a candidate that didn’t represent them in the primary and likely wouldn’t have in their office.
This is irrelevant. On election day you get two options and you have to pick whichever one comes CLOSEST to representing you. A ton of whiny little bitches stayed home or voted 3rd party (pointless) because Democrats didn’t align PERFECTLY with them. That shit ain’t happening in reality. You grow up and pick whoever is CLOSEST.
because Democrats didn’t align
PERFECTLYvery well at all with themThat shit ain’t happening in reality. You grow up and pick whoever is CLOSEST.
Interesting, because it looks like people chose a different option here in reality. Maybe you’re wrong and just wanting your ideal to be the case?
We can’t control the American voters
If only there was some entity we could donate to that could educate and persuade voters to vote for a progressive candidate via some kind of nationwide campaign…or something.
Alright I’m being facetious here if it’s not obvious but I agree with you. Whether the blame is placed at the feet of voters or the party (it doesn’t fucking matter as one is supposed to be educating and representing the other), the party is going to need to be the solution.
We can’t control the American voters so complaining about them doesn’t actually accomplish anything.
That’s a fair statement. It’s not so much complaining though, as just an observation of reality.
And I do agree that Democrats need to get better at promoting themselves.
But American voters cannot be absolved of responsibility. Especially not in an election like what we just experienced. This election wasn’t confusing. It wasn’t two candidates neck and neck in terms of being solid or bad. One candidate was WAY, WAY, SUPER, INCREDIBLY worse than the other and we already had a test run with him to prove it. We had a debate where he made a fool of himself talking about immigrants eating people’s pets and admitting he only had concepts of plans.
For the American public to go with that guy anyway…well, that’s a damning condemnation of American voters.
The focus should be forcing Democrats to get better at messaging. But the American voter’s failure CANNOT be ignored. If we keep placing all the blame on Democrats, without acknowledging the general public’s failure, then we’re simply ignoring the TRUE issue. The true issue being that we’re a complacent, lazy society that does not vote responsibly, regardless of what the parties themselves are doing or not doing.
Why can we convince the Dem Party but not the electorate?
The dem party is supposed to be the tool to convince the electorate
“We can, however, change the Democratic party to better align with the voters.”
Can you though? It’s not for lack of trying but y’all don’t seem to be having much success with this.
Can you though? It’s not for lack of trying but y’all don’t seem to be having much success with this
What?!
Ken Martin is a huge win as chair…
Like, we already changed the party. It happened.
That’s why I went from constantly shit talking the DNC to promoting it.
Neoliberals bet everything on Biden/Harris, and now they don’t have control of the DNC anymore.
The only people who shouldn’t be happy about that is conservatives
That’s because Democrats are expected to be perfect. Republicans are not.
Different standards.
It’s literally WAY easier for Republicans to get votes than Democrats. For a myriad of reasons.
