• captainlezbian@lemmy.world
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    7 days ago

    15 year olds are idiots. But like so are my coworkers. The difference is that 15 year olds have an excuse and might learn from their fuck ups.

  • TempermentalAnomaly@lemmy.world
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    7 days ago

    Man… The amount of comments saying that kids are dumb at fifteen and I didn’t know what I was doing at fifteen are all falsely equating respect with success and knowledge. Kids literally don’t know what their doing because they are figuring it out. They’re not dumb, they have a lot to learn. And most want to.

    Kids need respect for being who they are. You give most kids real respect and watch them do everything they can to live up to it. They need real connection and mentors. When you give high support then you can set high expectations.

    • where_am_i@sh.itjust.works
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      6 days ago

      The difference is you knowing that you don’t know, and an average teenager feeling like they know it all, while they know about as much as nothing.

    • GreenKnight23@lemmy.world
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      6 days ago

      Kids need respect

      no, kids need understanding. respect is earned. the difference between the two is trust.

      • TempermentalAnomaly@lemmy.world
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        6 days ago

        Respect is granted for just being human. That can be erode if they violate core social norms, but when respect is given trust is given back. They then give the effort that results in learning.

        • GreenKnight23@lemmy.world
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          6 days ago

          respect for life is not respect for the individual.

          trust must exist before respect is given. let me give you an example.

          a cop pulls you over, you were not breaking any laws that you were aware of. the officer walks up and asks you if you know why you were pulled over. you tell him no and he proceeds to tell you that you were speeding.

          you know this was a lie since you had speed control on.

          did you respect the officer before or after he pulled you over?

          did your level of respect change before or after he lied to you?


          in my case, I never respected the officer. I understand that he’s doing a job and will help however I can. However, after he lies to me I could never trust him, thus I could never respect him.

          my point is, In order for respect to exist, trust must be present first. I don’t trust strangers, even if they’re in positions of public trust.

          You are right though. Respect and trust correlate to each other and fortify each other. The more trust you have in someone, the more respect you have for them, the more respect you have for someone, the more trust you have in them.

          I can still trust somebody, but I can still not respect them. that relationship cannot be flipped around.

      • Whats_your_reasoning@lemmy.world
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        6 days ago

        You talk like all the adults that made life hell when I was 15. If anyone has to “earn” respect, it’s adults who forgot what it’s like to live under someone else’s thumb.

        • GreenKnight23@lemmy.world
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          6 days ago

          you talk like a petulant child that was never pushed to achieve more than you thought you were capable of.

          how’s that feel?

          I remember every moment of my life. I remember being 10 months old laying in my crib smelling the herb garden out the window. I remember my parents never showing up to any of my school events. I remember the way the belt across my back and thighs felt when my father got home from a “hard day”. I remember spending the weekend in jail because I was doing something my father made me do.

          fuck you, asshole.

          I never earned respect from them while they were alive. I didn’t even get any understanding from them. I only got yelled at, hit, and verbally abused when they felt they were losing control of their own life. respect is earned through proving you can be trusted with mature tasks. understanding should be given. understanding that a child may know to take out the trash but not know the importance of it. this makes it difficult for them to prioritize and objectively complete goals.

          children need understanding from adults, to provide guidance that allows them to grow on their own power and lean on when they need support.

          next time you want to attack someone based on who they are, take the entitled prick out of your mouth before you speak, asshole.

  • Apathy Tree@lemmy.dbzer0.com
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    7 days ago

    Was that supposed to stop after 15?

    Because as a woman-type creature, born and raised, that has been the whole life experience so far…

    And I’m more than twice that age now…

    • Cordinel@lemmy.sdf.org
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      7 days ago

      Having a baby face+being short will also do that to ya. Like, brother, we are the same damn age, why are you treating me like a child

      • Apathy Tree@lemmy.dbzer0.com
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        7 days ago

        Man I bet, that shit is rough. I’m also super short (two standard deviations below average for my a/s/l) and it just never stops being a thing.

        I’m actually thankful for all my gray hair so people stop treating me like a goddamned child. The gray has its own drawbacks ofc, but I don’t care anymore, just don’t treat me like a kid.

    • Shou@lemmy.world
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      7 days ago

      My mother stopped using intimidation to get her way after I became aggressive at 23.

      Going chimp is the only way so far that works for setting and enforcing boundaries. Some people shouldn’t be treated as human, but as ape. Watching nature documentaries helped me learn how to deal with pos family members.

      • Apathy Tree@lemmy.dbzer0.com
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        7 days ago

        Yeah mate I don’t have that option. “Going ape/chimp” at my size and general demeanor just looks like impotent rage, because it is. What is a 5 foot nothing going to do against anyone as far as boundary enforcement? (I used to wrestle; I know how to throw myself around, and I know I don’t stand a chance if most people call my bluff, but I’m fierce until you do call said bluff)

        And the people aren’t family, but society as a whole. My family is all dead and doesn’t matter. Until she died, my mom was my most vocal advocate, that woman loved everything I represented that she could never be but wanted. But I haven’t had her since I was 23, and I’m almost 40 now so…

      • Cataphract@lemmy.ml
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        7 days ago

        Umm, I’m just imagining someone still living off the parents who’s screaming like a monkey because his mother asked him to shower once this week. Like what kind of relationship are you allowing to continue where intimidation is effective? If you’re reliant on the person, I could understand not feeling like you could set boundaries before. But if you’re a healthy functional adult, you shouldn’t have to resort to “Going chimp”. Just like… live your life. Let them know you’re not gonna respond immediately to drama. Give them some distance and minimal effective communication so they know the point (not being an ass, but letting them know that you’re an adult with your own situations going on much like they’ve gone through and they’re burdening you now instead of supporting).

        • Shou@lemmy.world
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          6 days ago

          I only treat her like a chimp. I tried every advice the psychotherapist gave and nothing worked.

          I wanted to move out, but she and my father insisted that work/school balance was extremely difficult and expensive. It wasn’t back then. They were both just lonely and didn’t want to lose their pet child. I ran from home at 21.

          That first conflict at 23yo, was because my childhood cat died from inaction. My sister and I were visiting her and my sister noticed him being sluggish and weak. His breathing sounded laboured. So we booked an appointment at the vet. An hour or so later, he stumbled in gasping for breath and meowing weakly in between. We rushed him to the nearest vet clinic, but he didn’t make it.

          He had a persistent cough for months leading up to it, but since we only visited her on occasion, we didn’t realise. In hindsight, her complaining about the cat pooping indoors and refusing to climb over the fence to a spot the neighbourhood dedicated to outdoor cats, should have raised alarm bells. I failed him.

          Two days or so after his passing, I tried talking to my mother about what signs to look for and when to take pets to the vet. As always, she needs to have her way and tried to brush me off. Over and over I kept trying her to focus to no avail. For the first time, I saw red and seeing fear in her eyes. I did not get physical though, even though I would probably have had she continued to brush me off and shift blame of Timo’s death on me.

          Needless to say, nothing changed. Another cat died from possibly a heart condition she ignored when the cat “seemed exhausted and too tired to walk” on their daily evening stroll. “He went limb when I picked him up.” Adding to it she mentioned how he seemed fin the next day, so she let him outside. 3 days later he was found under a bush, long dead. There probably wasn’t anything we could do to save him, but the fact she just ignored it despite undrrstanding he became unwell. is just how impossible it is to get her to do anything outside her whims. Mind you, I pay the vet bills. So it wasn’t even her money she’d be spending on a visit!

          To this day, pets to her are just something to have to fill loneliness. Adopted a cat with PTSD, which she knew about before agreeing. She wanted to “get rid of him” because he was “stupid and retarded.” Pawn him off over a hand-me-down website or to a shelter. Chimp mode is what made her keep the cat. Threatning her with animal protection and that I would make sure she’d never have pets again, is what worked. Reasoning did not.

          The cat is doing well now. He still has PTSD, but he loves the outdoors and after weeks of feeding him, he becomes cuddly with you. He also loves my mom now, so she is happy about it too. It took 2-3 months of gradually building his trust.

          My mom has always used fear to get her way. When we were young, she’d use a belt to dicipline us. When my sister was 4, she beat her till bruising with a stick for walking away. She walked away after my mother left her alone to sit on a chair for 30min. A 4 year old cannot wait that long.

          As we got older, she added manipulative tactics. Though she used different methods, implying violence while shifting blame was her go-to method. Kept us docile and we thought we had deserved it. As she also brought us up in a cult that believed in karma. Our dad was a coward and avoided every conflict with her.

          That programming doesn’t just go away. And “simply living your life” back then seemed impossible. My sister, our dad and I are all close to no contact. I only ever talk to her when she needs help. I despise her, but I also know her history and what made her so cruel. Last time I was there was when the neighbourhood has a gas leak problem. So they were without heating. Brought her my electric heater and taught her how to use it. I hate her, but letting the old bitch sleep in the cold is going too far. Hadn’t spoken with her in 4 months by that time.

          She doesn’t respect boundaries. Never takes no for an answer and guilt trips you if you’re not careful. So my sister and I speak out, she doesn’t respect it and always starts pressing our buttons to get her way. At which point, I walk away.

          My sister avoids all contact nowadays after she threw a rock hard loaf of “spelt” bread at our mom. Our mom deserved it after trying to ridicule and emotionally hurt my sister. Implying she was stupid for not listening to our mother’s endless commands. That she had deserved it when her sunglasses fell off the table. Which fell off the table because our mother had pushed them off by accident after placing her bag on the table.

          Chimp mode is what we call losing our patience and seeking conflict. I got physical thankfully only once after she had locked the front door and I didn’t have a key to open it to get out. All because she wanted me to stay for lunch and followed me around trying to convince me to stay. I tried to walk away after she tried to paint my dad in a bad light for “wanting to abort me.” Which I already knew. What got me livid was the complete disrespect towards me in the way she said it, brushed me off and gave multiple improv bullshit reasons when I pressed for details. I knew that she wasn’t telling the whole story and that there was a reason she’d casually mention it point blank.

          In hindsight she only said it because she was jelous that my dad and I were getting closer (he was an absent father).

          Only recently I found out that she did have an abortion. She aborted my older brother because she didn’t want a son. She was and still is that controlling.

          She’ll never change. At best, she might be able to learn something. I made progress with her, and found a way to get her attention and be receptive. The opposite of chimp mode if you will. Takes a lot of energy and it’s like navigating a minefield. The recent year my life’s had more shit than I could handle. I do not have the energy or mental fortitude to tolerate her enough to try to improve our relationship again. 5 minutes ot teaching her how to use the heater was too much already.

          Effective communication does not exist with people who have 0 attention span and unwillingness to cooperate. Probably due to some form undiagnosed ADHD and personality disorder(s). We think PTSD and something in the borderline corner. It’s why we think aggression/hostility/direct conflict is the only thing she responds to. The only thing that gets her to back off. Chimp mode protects.

  • transhetwarrior (he/him)@lemmy.blahaj.zoneOP
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    7 days ago

    So. I was raised by a domestic violence lawyer. She was always really passionate about her job, about fighting abuse.

    When I was in middle school, I was abused myself. A teacher. I knew what was happening. I knew what they said to do about - tell a trusted adult. They would know what to do.

    My mother, the domestic violence lawyer, always so passionate about stopping abuse. She didn’t believe me. I was just a dumb kid, and kids make things up all the time.

    I realized there’s not much a kid can do to protect themself. “Tell a trusted adult” is the solution, not because adults are more responsible, but because they actually have fucking rights. If an adult has a bad job, they can get up and quit. If I tried to walk away from school, I’d be beaten.

    None of the adults wanted to listen to me, so what could I do? Jack fucking shit. I had that teacher for three years until I moved on to high school. I still have the trauma.

    Treat kids like people. I don’t want to hear any of this shit about how stupid they are. They know more about their own life experience than you do. Listen to them

    • melvisntnormal@feddit.uk
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      6 days ago

      Dude… That’s so depressing to read, I’m so sorry. I’m sure it wouldn’t help, and I’m pretty certain I can guess the answer, but did you ever tell your mum when you were older? Are you still in contact with her? Can’t blame you if you’re not, I probably would go NC myself.

  • where_am_i@sh.itjust.works
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    6 days ago

    “I’m 20 and this is deep”.

    Become an actual adult and you will realize how ridiculously difficult it is to take some uneducated teenager’s radicalism with any grain of seriousness and respect. Even if you try to because you remember what it felt like not to be taken seriously, and you don’t want to be that adult…

    • flying_sheep@lemmy.ml
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      6 days ago

      I’m 35, and I’m perfectly able to engage with the thought process behind the opinion, no matter how radical. All they want is to be treated with respect.

      Contrast with “real adults” who e.g. continue to trash the planet because they can’t even think of slightly decreasing the amount by which they enrich themselves. Those I don’t respect. They are the real radicals.

      If a 15 year old says “so much good can happen when a few billionaires kick the bucket”, I’m right there with them.

      • cheesepotatoes@lemmy.world
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        6 days ago

        Man, that is not what most 15 year olds are saying. You have an idealized fantasy in your head. Most of them are just spewing obscenities, racism and stupid incel/manosphere shit over discord. Just like we were over IRCs, ventrillo and TeamSpeak.

        Most kids are fucking stupid.

  • AstridWipenaugh@lemmy.world
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    7 days ago

    I get compliments on my kids behavior so often. People beg me for my secrets. It’s simple. I have treated them with respect as an individual person since day one. We only use our words to communicate and we never raise our voices. We apologize when we make mistakes and make it right. We talk about our feelings and work towards compromise. All these rules apply to kids and adults equally.

    I grew up with spankings and being told “I’ll give you something to cry about if you don’t shape up” and “just do as you’re told, no questions”. I won’t repeat those behaviors.

    • Kecessa@sh.itjust.works
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      7 days ago

      Yep, I talk with teens ~12 y.o. and up just like I would any adult, I have real conversations with them, including debates, and they appreciate it. Hell, it wasn’t that long ago that being a teenager or being a young adult wasn’t even a concept, you were a kid and around 12/13 you were an adult.

  • M600@lemmy.world
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    7 days ago

    People are always surprised in a good way when kids like me so much and quickly.

    It is not hard, I just treat them like a real person, I respect them and actively listen to them.

    Kids are so much smarter than people give them credit for and it is not hard to do.

  • NicolaHaskell@lemmy.world
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    6 days ago

    Counterpoint: grow up and learn to say no to your 15 year old self. “I’m just a kid and life is a nightmare!” is only a waypoint on the path to maturity, and immaturity is poorly disguised by pleas to “please somebody think of the children!” Children are welcome to have all their own thoughts and feelings, but having thoughts and feelings doesn’t entitle or qualify anybody to amplify them into leadership and policy.

  • Captain Aggravated@sh.itjust.works
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    7 days ago

    I was working as a flight instructor in my early 20’s. I’d occasionally get “So, how long have you been…flying?” from new students I was meeting for the first time. “Oh, since about 9 this morning” was my usual response.

    That shit usually stopped after about 20 minutes in the air. They’d try level turns or even leveling off at altitude and slosh all over the sky, then I’d hook a pinkie on the stick* and the plane would magically straighten right out. You could feel the moment they realized “Oh, this kid genuinely is qualified for this job,” and man was that satisfying. Youth does not equal useless.

    *This plane had a single stick in between the seats, and for training an extension would be added above the grip so the student and instructor can hold the controls at the same time. It meant if I touched the stick students usually saw me do it.

  • cheesepotatoes@lemmy.world
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    6 days ago

    Nah, I was a shitter at 15. I know now that the thoughts and feelings I had held no real water and I was just an idiot. Now, with everything I’ve learned and experienced, I would absolutely tell my 15 year old self to sit down and stfu.

  • _number8_@lemmy.world
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    7 days ago

    all this bullshit about taking their phones away…they have to wake up at 7am for school and be there all day, they can’t even have one bit of joy? they can’t do banter during class or record a lecture or look stuff up? why are we acting like school has to be strict because it has to seem strict

    • Captain Aggravated@sh.itjust.works
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      7 days ago

      The older I get the more I think school and college are the way they are for aesthetics more than effective education. And having gone back to college after earning a flight instructor certificate has convinced me at least some professors haven’t so much as looked up the word “learn” in a dictionary.