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Israel has one of, if not the best, intelligence network on the planet. They’re experts at cybersecurity and clandestine operations. They have precision weaponry. They know exactly who is in the line of fire when they launch a rocket.
They’re experts at cybersecurity
Fun fact: Cellebrite is made by an Israeli company
Unit 8200 is also Israeli along with NSO group.
Israel isn’t all knowing or omnipotent. Otherwise October 7th wouldn’t have happened and the war would have concluded after three months.
Not to feed conspiracy theories, but it’s very likely October 7th was known about and it was decided that letting it happen was more politically convenient to justify the ‘war’ happening now.
Israel has terrifying Intelligence that is world class, you might be underestimating it to be completely honest. By most accounts, it’s the most efficient and powerful intelligence and counterintelligence agency in the entire known world.
It was incompetence on the side of Israeli intelligence. Filtering and prioritizing information is very difficult.
They knew something was coming, but not the scale of of things.
The war is not politically convenient for Israel, quite the opposite.
You are peddling a conspiracy theory.
I’m peddling something that may very well be true, and things like this happen all across the world, all the time. I’m not trying to be a jerk, but I’m kinda trying to say that you appear naive in my eyes.
For governments, and organizations ends are often considered justified by means and that’s not even a crazy position to take.
Conspiracies literally happen, and honestly a lot of change in the world, or research, or political coups would be fundamentally impossible without them. You, like me, don’t have all the information needed to even know quite frankly.
That’s how the world actually works.
Nah. That is just part of the lie to make you think they are some indestructible super machine of super soldiers when they are just people with access to expensive weapons.
They missed an entire plot from their prisoners to rebel and commit a terrorist attack because they just talked about it in person instead of online.
This kind of thinking helps Mealnie Sue housewife in Indiana feel good about the killing of innocents cause the greatest smartest force couldn’t possibly be wrong or uninformed about things.
They know they are bombing civilians. They know that, trust me. But they don’t care nearly as much to know exactly who. That’s to be spun afterwards.
They BETTER start Caring! If they start Murdering a couple hundred Thousand more Babies the US MIGHT think about MAYBE giving them LESS Bombs!
Or more bombs, if you know what I mean 😳
I was trying to come up with some sick joke about the babies being antisemitic in the eyes of Israel, but I threw up a little bit every time I tried.
And I’ve got a dark sense of humor, so that’s saying something. >.<
What’s the difference between food and a pile of dead babies?
Sad infographic for anyone who wants it
Doesn’t make a distinction between militants and civilians.
Militants are estimated to be about 15,000 dead.
The infographic shows 40% killed are men. (Though it does include ‘elderly’ in the 60%.) 40% of 40,000 is 16,000. 40% of the 34000 recognized is 13,600.
So that tracks, sort of, with Israeli claims it is all Hamas.
The elderly category is a statistical trick to hide that its majority men. Any 17 year old militant is hiding in the children category as well.
This is extremely depressing, These babies didn’t deserve this… No one deserves this at all!
Ah. just what I wanted to see opening up this app.
How the fuck do I tell Lemmy to NOT RECOMMEND me stuff like this?
Unsubscribe from planet earth
I did that already, It just gave me death.
Blocking a boring dystopia is not a bad move if you don’t want depressing reality.
I consume enough “Depressing reality” Via Twitter topics and from the news/articles. I don’t want this leaking into Lemmy also.
Also it does me 0 Good to constantly remind myself of all the dead fuckin babies In Hamas. There is NOTHING I can do to fix, help, save, or improve such an issue All is does is make me depressed and Spiral into existentialism. As horrible as it sounds I would much rather feign ignorance for most of it. All I need to know is Who is helping to stop the war and who isnt.
Yes, so block this sub, as I said.
But according to western military experts that are promoted by bibi himself, the IDF is the most moral army on earth and does more to mitigate civilian casualties than any army in history???
Modern weapons are so accurate, so when I see this now I’m pretty sure that it was intentional don’t let them deceive y’all by the ‘most moral army in the world’ bull shit, Their goal is to ethnically cleanse the Palestinian ethnicity, they want more and more land. It’s pure genocide yet the west still fund them what a world are we living in! Now you can’t blame a kid for joining Hamas when he grows up in all of this and see all his siblings die or his relatives. Pain will cause pain and violence will cause violence it’ll be an endless loop.
Now you can’t blame a kid for joining Hamas when he grows up in all of this and see all his siblings die or his relatives.
When you bomb the shit out of any area you claim to have terrorists in all you do is create more terrorists. It’s like the oldest concept in history that we absolutely refuse to learn because it’s beneficial not to when you need a terrorist to point at to justify your bullshit…
Israel was warned before October 7th and they decided to ignore it, They wanted this to happen in order to destruct and destroy Gaza. Netanyahu is a War-Criminal and I simply can’t wait to see him held accountable for all of that!
I sincerely hope this happens, but Israel owns our current administration, and apparently the US has veto power on the UN, which seems like a dumb idea.
“totally not a genocide you guys”
Fuck you. I know a war crime when I see one.
I think I must be heartless.
Does anyone have a link to the actual document? Please 🙏
Unless I’m blind, that’s not the whole document, but just a few pages of it. I’m not doubting it exists, but this is a lot less to send to every university printer people have access to 😩
Those children could’ve grown up to do some amazing things in many different industries (and no, terrorism is NOT one of them), but because they’re unlucky enough to be born in Gaza, they have to deal with constant bombing, lack of food and water, damages in physical and mental health, and eventually death, before they even turn 18. Sometimes it’s even abrupt and sudden.
Has Israel not yet learned how cruel this is? And THEY’RE the ones that get all the funding to do this. Oh, but if I say anything bad about Israel then I’m “antisemitic” MY ASS. You’re killing literal children and I want the whole world to know about it.
Or you know, Hamas could have built bomb shelters for the people they’re “protecting”. Instead they built tunnels for themselves and keeping hostages, dragged Gaza into a needless war with Israel, all the while its own leaders live in the comfort of Iran’s mad regime that also funds them.
Maybe the Muslim brotherhood would help out these children by accepting them as refugees, but I guess nobody wants another Black September like the one where PLO attempted a coup attempt on the Jordanian king that accepted Palestinian refugees, huh?
Maybe the Muslim brotherhood would help out these children by accepting them as refugees, but I guess nobody wants another Black September where PLO attempted a coup on the Jordanian king that accepted Palestinian refugees, huh?
I think I speak for every single Jordanian when I ask you to shut the fuck up.
Thanks for this elaborate attempt at a discussion. Telling someone to fuck themselves instead of engaging with their point is kind of satisfying to see, especially from someone claiming to have the moral upper hand.
Not interested in discussion with someone deliberately lying about my country and people.
Are you disagreeing that Black September happened or what?
Why the fuck would Hamas build bomb shelters to protect civilians from Israel, when Hamas is literally funded by Israel?
So, it’s everybody’s fault BUT Israel.
Yea instead of even attempting to engage with any of the points I made write a witty comment. That will show that you know what you’re talking about! 👍
I literally didn’t say what you said, as a matter of fact this entire thread says that its everyone’s BUT Hamas fault. I was making a point that they could have and should have done significantly more to ensure that this tragedy doesn’t happen.
What Israel is doing isn’t good but pretending that this is a one sided issue is a ridiculous misunderstanding of the entire problem, which is by the way the theme of everyone who made up their minds in the last year regarding “which side they support”
Israel created Hamas by murdering Palestinians and illegally occupying their territory for decades. So blame Hamas all you want, but Hamas’s existence is also Israel’s fault.
So, if I extend your logic, if ISIS is America’s fault ( which in many ways it is) we should have left Iraq and Syria to succumb to it?
Yes, US imperialism is responsible for much of what is going on in the middle east. I’m not going to pretend to know enough about those conflicts to answer your question, but I’m not exactly sure how it’s relevant. But as a general rule, yeah the US should fuck off and stop interfering in other countries. It never helps and it’s never truly motivated by selfless goals. America does not support Israel because Israel is “good”, they support Israel because it’s their proxy base in the middle east. Hence why not even Democrats give a fuck that their “closest ally” is murdering children daily.
The US should absolutely stop funding Israel and Israel should immediately withdraw from the Gaza, the West Bank, and its illegal settlements. Not sure what you expected me to say.
I’ll just open with saying that I agree with your main point. Of course Israel is an ally of US, and US uses Israel to further their own gains in the region. The same can be said about literally any country in the world, though. It’s just the military & economic power of the US, and going against is a dangerous game to play. I am not defending or saying that US is good, I am just stating the obvious. Even China is not always able to stand against the US.
Now to continue to my main point:
I’m not going to pretend to know enough about those conflicts to answer your question, but I’m not exactly sure how it’s relevant. The point I was trying to make is that Israel-Palestine conflict is hyperfocused on, in a region that is extremely unstable and seen dozens of civil & international wars, coups & human rights abuses over the last few decades. Fighting ISIS killed thousands of civilians and displaced, at least several million people. And while ISIS comitted many crimes against humanity, Russian & NATO bombs have also killed thousands of civilians. But people don’t even know this. And don’t seem to care.
Should I also talk about Kurds, who were also fighting that war (against ISIS) and despite that Turks are literally borderline genociding them whenever they get the chance, these people do not resort to terrorism?
It makes you wonder, why in this sea of instability, wars, coups and human rights abuses people hyperfocus on one particular state, which is primarily inhabited by people who have been historically persecuted, killed and displaced consistely for thousands of years?
I understand your anger, but my brother, the moment you wrote that Hamas “dragged Gaza with an endless war with Israel” you just lost it. There is a war because Israel wants to exterminate the palestinian population and feels so confident about it (because they have been so long endorsed and protected by USA thanks to their lobbies in that country) that are now openly and publicly talking about how even children should be murdered and how it is not inappropiate at all to rape palestinian prisoners up their asses to death.
And when Iran’s Khamenei says that “Israel should be wiped out” – that is not a “want to exterminate Jews”?
If they wiped out Israel there would still be Jews.
That’s a horrible statement to make about a nation that seen thousands of years of genocides, pogroms, discrimination and displacement. You’re just saying let’s continue with that.
You have to understand that Israel is there and will be there, and you need to work from there to find a solution which also accommodates Palestine ( as an independent country ). There is no future for Palestine, however, where Iran-funded terrorist organisations are at its helm.
You kick the wasps nest and then are surprised when you get stung
Tell me how the 14 pages of 0 year olds kicked the fucking wasps nest
Every single one of those kids would still be alive if Hamas hadn’t attacked on Oct 7.
Their parents and their peers condemned them to that fate
Uhh yeah probably not actually.
The death toll for babies wasn’t exactly amazing for palestinians before Israel went full gloves off and just directly started dropping bombs on them.
You know the whole open air poorly kept prison camp thing wasn’t apparently the best place for keeping people alive in and Israel was tossing a few bombs and military stunts every now and again just to keep them on their toes and squeeze in the border every so often.
So, all those kids ? Nah there would still be plenty of blood spillt just not all of it.
How many pages of dead babies are necessary before this becomes unacceptable to you? 20? 50? 100? 200? Where’s the line where you step back and say “Okay this is too far”? Or is absolute genocide of the entirety of Palestine acceptable to you?
You have no fucking idea whether those babies parents supported hamas or not. You have condemned all Palestinians to death because of Hamas.
I don’t know?
How many pages of dead babies are necessary before Hamas releases the hostages.
The single reason this war is ongoing is cos Hamas still has hostages.
Or, you know, if the IDF didn’t attack civilians. How about the settlers attacking villages on the west bank, would you be ok if there was retaliation for that seeing as they just shouldn’t be doing that?
if the IDF didn’t attack civilians.
Hamas are well known for hiding among civilians
would you be ok if there was retaliation for that seeing as they just shouldn’t be doing that
Maybe get your kids out of the way before launching attacks.
I’m not saying the IDF aren’t committing war crimes. All i am saying is they aren’t solely to blame for the current state of affairs. Hamas, and the people in Gaza and the West Bank who support Hamas (of which there are many) also share that blame
Trump would have been worse ;/s
Why the /s? This is objectively true
That is more babies than the total amount of civilians killed by Hamas on October 7.
Starting a war against a much stronger enemy is not a smart move.
That was the point of the action. Iran understands the hatred by the Israeli state for the Palestinian people (condoned, sometimes commended by western imperialist interests, particularly the British empire and the United States) only required provocation before Israel would commit atrocities that could be called a holocaust. So the Iranian intelligence state funded Hamas to cause trouble.
And they played Netanyahu the way Martin Luther King Jr. played US police departments.
The difference is, information from Palestine leaks out better now than it did throughout the 20th century, so the global public, especially in industrialized states, gets to look at it. We get to know what is happening and it is more frightening than we imagined.
The horror of the German holocaust, according to our own nations and their state departments, is not what was done, but to whom.
I pray people with a victim blaming complex like this seek therapy before it’s too late.
“They made me do it” has been the main axis of Israeli Propaganda since the start and that’s just a variant of that.
How about this alternative explanation: they’re stealing Palestinian land, want to ultimatelly steal all Palestinian land, are led by Sociopaths and Psychopaths and have an extremely racist society anchored on the kind of ethnic superiority ideas that would make Klanners blush, so they were always going to do something like this sooner or later to get rid of the rest of Palestinians and get the rest of their land and do it in the most inhuman ways because a large part, maybe even most, of Israeli society see themselves as “the chosen people”, a superior ethnicity and what the previous famous group of ethno-Fascists would call übermenschen, whilst they see Palestinians as lesser people, “human animals”, untermenschen.
This is the kind of mass murdering Western nations used to do back in the days of Colonialism. It’s only shocking for us nowadays because we’ve evolved as societies and adopted Humanist values (though by their support of Israel you can see that many a politics and in several countries and even a large fraction of people have in fact not evolved). Israel does in fact have Western Values, it’s just they’re the White Colonialist Values that many European nations had back in the 19th Century, not 21st Century Western Values.
We know they’re stealing Palestinian land. They were stealing Palestinian land when the British Empire installed Israel there. And yes, at that time George VI was glad to suggest it is right and proper to push out the lesser peoples so that the Jewish folk could settle there. And that’s exactly what they’ve been doing since.
However, since then, the international community has become more aware of the humanity of peoples who are not as wealthy or white as westerners, so much like the Church in the middle ages advocating only for Jus Bellum (so that expansionist kings had to find a way to justify their rightful ownership of the places they conquered) modern nations have to find a way to legitimize the regions they annex, or the peoples they war against.
So yeah, Israel was glad to have the excuse when Hamas or Hezbollah were there to provide it. And Iran props them up (provides them materiel support) so that they have the opportunity to take shots at Israel, knowing it will drive them to cruelty while the world watches, de-legitimizing the Zionist movement in the eyes of the international community (and the public).
While Israeli patriots can politely talk about the propriety of (say) price-tag killings or the treatment of Palestinians in Hebron, the State has to be more delicate. All the more so when IDF troopers are expressing glee in the opportunity to massacre Palestinian civilians down to the last child and grandmother.
But there are no humanitarian interests at the international level. All the states are still propped up by oligarchs wanting to clear land and seize resources for their own use, and at this point, as far as I can tell, we’re all going to be killed by famine and water shortage due to ecology collapse before that changes.
“Iran made me do a genocide” is certainly a take. One of the most takes of all time, even.
Yeah, Iran made me do a genocide the way a wife made her abusive spouse do a domestic violence. More that Iran knew the Israeli administration (Netanyahu and friends) were totally eager to accelerate the genocide (it has already been happening), and provided them an easy excuse, because drunk daddy can’t help himself.
This is why the US has been screaming at Bibi, Don’t! It’ll be just like Fallujah! It’s a trap! And Bibi couldn’t listen with that kind of temptation.
(And yes, this is one of those hazards whenever Trump is in the White House, because Trump can’t help himself either.)
Why exactly would Iran hope for the US to be a one-party autocracy full of imperialists who won’t suffer non-whites or non-Christians?
A lot of things.
For one thing, Trump / Project 2025 wants to kill NATO. Trump has already sown enough distrust that Germany is looking to secure military independence from the US.
Another thing is Trump and his companion ideologues are manipulable, as per his relations with Putin, Kim Jong Un and the Sauds. Even if they can’t turn him against Israel, they can certainly goad him into making brash decisions.
Then there’s the matter that the MAGA Republican Party favors loyalty over principle, which scares away its own intelligentsia, and creates a brain drain. We already see the Project 2025 plan to replace government department staff (who have education and experience) with Trump and MAGA ideology loyalists (who do not), which is going to speed the regime’s plummet into corruption and decadence.
The latter 20th century was defined by the US being the baddest dog on the field, tempered only by the USSR being right there to harrow the US and keep it busy. Now the cold war is ended, the US has just turned into a military bully for the interests of its own oligarchs. (It doesn’t help that the white Christian nationalist movement has been pushing the US towards fascist one-party autocracy since the FDR’s New Deal, as explained in Behind the Bastards two parter How the Rich Ate Christianity ).
Genuinely free, fair states are a threat to autocrats, far more than other autocrats, so seeing the US fall to one-party autocracy is absolutely on Iran’s holiday wishlist.
They may get it too, depending on if Trump wins the election, or his coup d’etat is successful, or civil war breaks out in the States.
Because that one party autocracy wants to fuck off from the rest of the world.
Well that’s fucking depressing
how many children under the age of 1 die annually across the world? Surely, that’s gotta be pretty high as well?
This is specifically children killed by israel. An article from 6 months ago:
Gaza: Number of children killed higher than from four years of world conflict
yeah no i picked that part up, i can read, i’m just curious what this looks like relative to the usual infantile deaths i guess.
I can just about guarantee it’s worse since bombing hospitals tends to have a higher infant mortality rate than the usual causes of SIDS.
possibly, depends on where you gather statistics. Third world countries have a lot of people, and worse infant mortality, so it might still be pretty high.
Let me know when you find a country with a worse infant mortality rate than one that has been largely bombed to rubble.
“The Ministry of Health in Gaza” is fucking Hamas and Hamas is known to be a bunch of liars. Of course there are dead babies, but please don’t trust something produced by a terrorist organization for propaganda purposes. Think yourself: Could Hamas really have the capability of producing reliable statistics about the gaza population after month of being bombarded?
You have a great point. Let’s let a large number of objective humanitarian workers with aid in who can gather statistics.
Is that possible?
If I were an epidemiologist and statistician and wanted to gather data and provide aid, could I just go there and do that?
I didn’t see the TikTok videos, but were those faked?
I don’t trust Hamas and think they are bad. But is everyone in Gaza some hardcore Hamas person? I think a lot of them just want water food and to not die. Im not that knowledgable on any of this.
They are the government of Gaza. Calling their civil service workers terrorists is just ridiculous. Are Ambulance drivers in the US responsible for the CIA’s doings?
And if they don’t have ability to count the dead anymore, (40k is a months old number at this point), could that have anything to do with Israel repeatedly targeting the healthcare infrastructure in Gaza?
“of course there are dead babies” as if 1 is not 1 too many. Also, don’t underestimate the power of bureaucracy even during a genocide.
I hate to defend Israel here because they’ve gone off the deep end. But there was always going to be a response and unfortunately there was always going to civilian deaths, including children. Keeping those to a minimum is a big deal to any military trying to operate in good faith, but zero won’t happen until we turn the moon into an arena and have all of our wars up there.
Keeping civilian deaths to a minimum is not something israel is interested in, their actions make it clear that they want to completely destroy life in gaza. This is 11 months of bombardment and torture and gangrape of detainees (on video) this is much more than a standard military response this is genocide
Yes I agree. I should have been more clear. I’m just trying to rebut the idea that 1 dead infant would or should stop a war. It sucks, I hate it, but it’s just not how the world works, and good people do their best to keep that number as low as possible. Israel is showing us their military is not made of good people.
Think yourself: Could Hamas really have the capability of producing reliable statistics about the gaza population after month of being bombarded?
Was in OIF. Got mortared, ied’d, and/or shot at nearly every day. Finance nerds still went to work. MI still disseminated no intelligence at all. Marines wrote offensive things and about my mother in very visible places I could not access. In 2003, our csh still kept digital records - on computers and laptops. Everyone did their jobs without any hesitation or meaningful difficulty at all. We all used to be civilians. Everyone has a threshold for the limits of adaptation, but most of us are capable of adapting to war, unfortunately though it may be. I realize that the impression our culture cultivates about war is a guy clutching his knees, weeping, and rocking back and forth while the planet fragments around him - and occasionally that does happen - but esprit de corps tends to motivate people into adaptation. It was my experience that the children in Iraq could follow my leadership and guidance better than their parents. They could also tolerate the terror better. They also had better senses of humor. They could also speak better English. I was an army guy but I still have a hunch that this had something to do with it. So be careful of the narrow perspective that organizational behaviors could only function effectively or reliably when sequestered within utopian sanctuary. People can do amazing things.
There’s also the fun fact that despite similar bombings, the death toll seems to have stopped going up after Israel did their best to destroy every major hospital and health infrastructure in the country. It’s entirely possible they’ve lost the ability to effectively count the dead and this isn’t the current number, it’s the last known good number. A country not being able to count it’s dead in a war should only happen because the other side is controlling the hospitals and thus responsible for those reports. So yeah, the next time someone questions if they can even count the dead remind them of Israel repeatedly targeting their healthcare system.
A recent study publish in the Lancet - a medical journal - estimated the deaths in Palestine to already be over 180k.
This was a few months ago.
Yeah, that’s the part that keeps me up at night - the knowing or not of the unknown dead. I know that not everyone that dies from war dies neatly and at the war. And I know that we were only able to account for a body if it was present and discernable. So I don’t know if the estimates are correct or not. But I’m in therapy either way. Mental health is stupid.
Well I do want you to know you’re not alone, I’m in therapy too. I was in the 101st for OIF 1. And yeah this shit is distressing. For me it’s the people blithely excusing war crimes we bent over backwards to keep from committing.
Fuck me. See? This is why I stay my ass out of the VFW. The last thing I need is a shared experience. 😂 We wear the same patch on our right shoulder battle.
And you’re spot on. I think it was a hard thing to rationalize that we went there to help. I mean, “we” thought we were helping. I still don’t know. Either way, you deserve self-empathy friend. Also ketamine. It helped me a lot! 😄
Good on you for making it through the last two decades too! I would gander that we have all gone through some degree of self destruction, and I know some more than others. Keep your chin up and your head down. Don’t drink and drive and if you swim take a buddy.
At least in the VFW I can use my worst coping mechanism. But yeah, the one consolation I think our generation gets is that we really did remove a murderous sociopath from running the place. Everything else is murky but that’s a shiny bit. You keep your head up too.
Right, so let’s assume they’re lying to some extent? How much of the number do you think is made up? 50%?
